Episode Transcript
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[00:01:10] Speaker B: welcome to this week's edition of the Dugout Dish podcast. I'm joined by my Wonderful Co host, Mr. Keith Glasser. How we doing, sir?
[00:01:17] Speaker A: Great. How are you?
[00:01:19] Speaker B: We've got a.
An esteemed guest on this is. He's a second timer.
[00:01:24] Speaker C: Third. Third time.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Oh, yes, you're right. Third time. Well, but we're gonna have a good conversation here about a lot of good stuff. But Keith, I'm gonna kick it over to you for the intro before we get stuck, before we get going.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: Well, he already introed himself, but for the third time.
Second time interview. Different job than the previous time that we interviewed him, but I will say our first actual interview on this podcast, our good friend. I was his personal catcher in the soon to be Yale baseball pitching coach, Eric Suplee.
Eric.
[00:02:04] Speaker C: Slop down, guys.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: Welcome to the podcast.
[00:02:07] Speaker C: Great to be back again.
So I've done it as a.
Let's see, as a coach at University of San Francisco, an unemployed. An unemployed freeloader.
And now is.
I just got the notification. My background check is 86% complete.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: So it's that last 14 you got to worry about.
[00:02:33] Speaker C: I don't know what's in that last 14.
Hopefully they've already cleared college. So, yeah, we should be good.
If that's the case, it's your fault.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Fair enough.
Fair enough.
But it fired up to have you on, man.
Good to have you back on the east coast. We miss you while you're out west, but.
Yeah.
So let's get right into it.
It's been a lot of changes.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: In college baseball.
Yeah.
Not only your own personal changes. Switching coasts and and back in the Ivy League. But you know, we got the 34 man rosters, we got the new five for five, we got the transfer portal.
I'd love to get your thoughts on broadly about the impact that you've seen. I know you've been doing this a long time. You're you know, good friends with a lot of guys who coach at different levels but then also kind of give us the impacts that it may or may not have at, in the Ivy League and school at Yale. Because I think the impacts are a little bit different for you.
[00:03:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I think first off for the ivy League, the 34 man roster is probably maybe only two schools that'll really impact Columbia and Penn just because they're able to get a few more guys in than everybody else.
But I don't if you're getting 70 guys in, which is what most, most of the schools in the league get, you know, maybe you'll get a guy in here and there on their own. You're, you're going to end up being around 34, a little bit under. But I think it's good, I think it holds coaches accountable.
That's, that's probably a really big thing and you got to be selective with who you're recruiting.
But it changes a lot of things too.
Really interesting time for high school kids because I don't know, you know, we're going to, we're different. Like we're going to have to play freshmen all the time because of our roster size. But you know, if you're in the sec, sec, like how many freshmen do you really want to play?
And you know, if you have a freshman stockpiled for the future and you've got a lot of resources tied up in them, they're, you know, let's say it's a pitcher and he only eats up 10 innings that year, 12 innings.
You got 18, 17 pitchers on your staff. Like that's, that's an important spot. You take out a couple guys that get hurt, a couple guys don't pan out and next thing you know you're trying to run through an ACC schedule. 11, 10, 11, 12 guys and that's, that's tough. So I think a lot of schools need to evaluate really what direction they want to go in. Especially at the mid major level. I think it's a little bit more clear with the sec. ACC programs that have nil money. They can rely a little bit more on transfers and you know, they're, they're playing the one year game, maybe they'll have some Guys that are multi year plans. But you know, are you going to be a feeder school at a mid major? Are you going to try to recruit really good freshmen and know that you're going to lose them and recruit that way and say, hey, if you're good as a sophomore, great, we'll bring in the next guy you know? Or do you want to just get a bunch of junior college guys that are older and bigger and physical?
I don't know, it's. But it, I think, I think you're gonna have to pick and choose as a program and it really, it leaves high school kids in a weird situation because they don't, they don't know like, they don't know what direction a program's going in and the way that coaching staffs are changing these days.
You know the guy that, the guy that you talk to as a 16 year old, you know, August one's rolling around that that guy might not be there and all of a sudden you're a freshman at a mid major school and you don't know anybody and you know, you're looking around, there's 23 year olds on the team and you're like, oh no.
So I don't really know what's going to happen. I don't, I don't think anybody knows what's going to happen, but it's going to be different.
And I, I do think the 34 man roster is a good thing though. I think that holds coaches accountable.
You won't have situations where there's 60 guys on campus in the fall, which is good. And I think it'll make, it'll make at least at lower levels it'll make you like really recruit a little bit more again and it won't just be a giant meat market. So, you know, the five for five thing doesn't apply to us, which is, is what it is. But I, that's another one. Like we'll see, we'll see what happens. I don't know, this is, this is all new territory and if somebody's telling you exactly what's going to happen, I think they're lying to you because they don't know.
You know, they open up the transfer portal thing. I don't think anybody was expecting thousands and thousands of names or some people probably were, but you know, there's just, we'll see. But it is like the transfer portal, like it's here and you gotta, you gotta figure out a way to manipulate it and work it and figure out how to best use it for your program.
So there's no use of complaining about it because it, it, it appears like it's staying and that's just what it's going to be like now.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: I think we just saw something the other day that Division 2 is, I don't know, I wouldn't say scrap. Scrambling is probably the right, not the right description of it, but they're moving quick to try to implement it at their level, which I imagine it's going
[00:08:43] Speaker C: to trip as well.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: But explain real briefly. I think the explanation is pretty simple. But why doesn't it apply to Yale? Why doesn't it apply to the Ivy League?
[00:08:55] Speaker C: So the, the big thing with the Ivy League and this is what happened like after Covet as well.
You can't be in grad school as a player in the Ivy League. We actually, in 22, we think we had the only grad school player in the history of the Ivy League.
His name was Billy Black. He was a pitcher. And they gave the league graciously gave a one year waiver to student athletes. If you got into grad school on your own at an Ivy League school, you could play a sport or you could play that same sport.
It's a.
Billy got in and yeah, we had him for an extra year, but you get, basically, you get four years in the Ivy League.
Now there are situations where guys have gotten hurt and they defer or they sit out a semester, things like that, but it doesn't really affect us, most of you, because you're not allowed to play in grad school in the Ivy League. And I believe the Patriot League's the same way.
And then, you know, you've got schools around the country that just don't even have grad schools. So those, those schools are kind of, you know, in a, I don't know, maybe a slightly at a slight disadvantage. But for us it, I think it actually kind of helps us because if you're in the position to do it, like, it's just another kind of like what was going on with the COVID years. Our, our guys at Columbia and then, you know, around the Ivy League were making huge impacts at high levels of, of Division 1 baseball. And it was really cool for them. They had their degree, their life set up. They're going to do whatever they want to do for the rest of their lives. But you know, they get to play one year in the SEC as a super experienced college baseball player and it's awesome for him. So, so I imagine that'll continue.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I imagine, I imagine the likes of, of Duke and UVA and, and the such.
Aren't, aren't mad about being able to continue to pick through really experienced, talented Ivy League guys and bring them in?
[00:11:14] Speaker C: No.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: And some of those guys had just huge impacts, A and M, like super mature.
[00:11:22] Speaker C: They're going to be mature.
You know, if they're going to play at that level, they've probably been at least getting innings or at bat since they were freshmen. So they're going to be experienced.
Yeah, like they're going to be highly sought after, which is great. I think it's awesome for them.
And they're going to get paid, they're going to get paid a lot of money by those schools through nil deals.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: Win, win Yale degree, little paycheck to go play at A and M.
Sure works pretty good.
If I was going to ask you for a Hypothesis on the 5 for 5, I think the question I have for you is do you think that more or less kids are actually going to finish five years at one school?
Less?
[00:12:18] Speaker C: Yeah, like, I can't. Like, I mean we've, we've kind of talked about this. But think about, for you to play at one school for five years, that means that you probably have neither gotten better or worse over the course of five years where like the coaching staff is like, man, this kid's awesome. We need to keep them around. But at the same time, you're sitting there like, I'm not good enough to go anywhere, I'm not good enough to go anywhere else.
You know, maybe some of the bigger state schools.
But then you're just talking about like, you know, a kid growing up in Louisiana, that die hard LSU fan like that, that kid that's going to LSU as a freshman though, like those guys are usually pros, they're gonna have pro opportunities and at some point, you know, Jay Johnson might just move on from that. Like it's, it's going to be hard to, for that, for it to be a mutual agreement that you're both, you know, the coach and the player feel you're at the right level for five years.
That's hard to do in college baseball right now.
And I think it's going to take some really, you know, maybe that just like grimy kid that just takes really good at bats and plays over their ability and again is at that big state school or you know, they're in a specialized academic program maybe, but it's, I can't see it happening very often.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a, for me, that's the, the elephant in A room with the five for five is. I think a lot of people jump to the conclusion like, oh, this is going to be really good for high school guys. And we talked about the 34, which doesn't leave you a ton of room to take a guy who's a full year away from being able to help you, which is the idea that some people have put out there. But I think this is.
Well, if you can't play your fifth year at the school that you're at or you've outplayed the school that you're at.
Right. Like, if you're. We'll use Marisa as an example. We all went there.
You're a really, really good player, emerist.
But you're not a draft guy. But you've got 700 at bats under your belt. You probably are going to go somewhere else and finish out your career, you know, try to quote, unquote, move up a level.
[00:14:58] Speaker C: Right.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: So those guys got to go into the Portal.
I'm really curious to see how the Portal stuff is going to play out. Because of the five for five, that's the, that's the biggest unknown for me is like, you saw 2700 division one kids going to the portal this year.
The five for five stuff, like how many of those kids, what does that number look like next year? I'm really interested to see what it's going to be.
[00:15:27] Speaker C: I think it also, the number might be smaller just because we're getting out of DSAs and it's a, and it's a true 34 man roster. So there's, there's less kids to transfer out.
So that might actually lower the number percent. But I, I think the, the number, the thing to track actually is like the percentage of college of Division 1 players.
Because I, I don't, I don't think the percentage is going to change a whole lot, but I, I do think the number will go down because there's just fewer guys that are going to be playing Division 1 baseball from now on.
Yeah, that's just a fact.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: 18, 1800. 1800 less spots when it's a true 34.
[00:16:15] Speaker C: Right?
[00:16:16] Speaker B: From what it was previously. No, that's a good point.
Oh, it's gonna, it's gonna be interesting. And lucky for you, you can continue to recruit really good high school guys and, and do it, do what you need to do and, and you know, keep yell on the up and up. So the other question I had for you, I want to let you run with this and I'm, I'm Sure. Me and Keith are gonna, are gonna, gonna kind of chime in on this because we've talked to you about this a ton of times, just individually and.
But I want you to walk us through kind of how you go about your evaluation of high school arms and like what that looks like. Kind of start from start to finish for you to identification to when you get them to campus, and then we can talk about that looks like after. But I think that this is a little bit of a bailed process and I think you're just the right guy to kind of walk through like this is kind of how you go about it.
And I think it'll be really enlightening for people to hear some of the things that are important to you and what your process looks like.
[00:17:37] Speaker C: So first things first. I gotta get those transcripts now.
Transcripts and test scores.
But let's say we like, we know ahead of time this kid. So a lot of what we want to do and I don't know if this changes a lot, you know, with different programs around the country, but for us, you know, it's like this at Columbia as well. We got to do a lot of legwork on the front end.
Rarely are we going to show up to a field and, you know, the opposing pitcher that we're not there to see is going to qualify academically. I'll give you a really rare occasion that we're. I called in on a kid a couple days ago, a high school coach in Southern California that I had known previously. We, we'd recruited his guys at Columbia. Actually, I've known. Known this guy for like six, seven years. He's at a different high school, called about a kid.
He recommended another kid who
[00:18:50] Speaker A: really good.
[00:18:51] Speaker C: Yeah, things like that don't really happen for us a lot, but we make a lot of calls around the country and once we find someone, we're going to make a lot more calls.
Anybody that we know that's seen them, travel coaches, high school coaches.
So, you know, regional stuff for us is kind of important, at least for me, like having multiple sources in an area.
But I try to get as many people's opinions that I trust as possible, like as many as possible before I even have a conversation with the kid.
Now sometimes, like, it just happens, like where the kid calls you or, you know, a coach puts you in touch with them. But I, I try to get a really clear picture of who I'm talking to, what their values are, you know, what they're into off the field, on the field, what they do well, all that kind of stuff, you know, what their parents situation is like for us, financial situation, what they want to study. Those are all really important things. But before we even have a conversation and before we even go see them, I'm. I'm typically trying to do as much legwork on them as possible.
And any red flags and stuff, we're just in a situation where we can't. We can't take red flags. We can't take guys that we have question marks about. We can't miss on the person we're going to miss physically.
It's going to happen. Like, guys aren't going to develop, guys are going to get hurt, whatever, but we cannot miss on the person because, you know, we get seven guys a year usually. Sometimes we get eight, and, you know, that's 30, 31, 31 guys there. Like, we can't.
We can't have a bad seed in the. In the locker room. So first things first. We're doing a ton of legwork on the front end because oftentimes we're getting on a plane to go see guys. We're spending a lot of time in Georgia. We're spending a lot of time in Arizona. California, you know, great. Park in Indiana. Texas is a really big state for us with our connections down there.
So, you know, it's probably a really bad idea if I'm getting on a plane to go see somebody and I don't really know anything about them. So before we really even get into the physical stuff, I'm trying to figure out this is the right person, if they have the right mindset, if we're gonna vibe. Well, that's always important to me. I'm. I'm a different bird. I, like where my head is at is totally different than a lot of other coaches.
Totally fine. Like, I think that's a huge part of the recruiting process that a lot of kids whiff on.
I. I always tell kids, you have to be around me every day, and I have to be around you every day. So we better figure this out before you get to camp if this is gonna work.
But then we can get into the physical stuff.
You know, what are their physical traits?
[00:21:56] Speaker B: What.
[00:21:57] Speaker C: What do they look like now?
You know, before we even get into how they move? Like, what are they going to look like?
You know, August one's rolling around.
Let's say we get a kid that commits to us at the end of August, he's.
Is that 20, 24 months?
[00:22:17] Speaker B: Yeah, they won't. If it's an arm, that kid wouldn't throw a pitch for you until the spring of 2029.
[00:22:25] Speaker C: Yeah. So, you know, you're factoring a little bit of what time of year it is, what they've looked like in the past. Try to get some old video and stuff just so you can see what they've done physically.
But usually within the first 10 minutes of the conversation with the kid. I'm, I want to know if they like the weight room because I think that's the great equalizer. Especially in our league, we're a little bit more limited with our time on the field, how many games we play and stuff. We're not limited with how much time we can spend in the weight room.
So I want to know if guys want to be in there getting bigger and stronger.
There's a really good, really good article I read the other day. The average, I think is the average right handed pitcher. The weight in the draft was 209.
That ain't small.
So, you know, what do they look like physically? And then we kind of get into how they move, you know, where's the upside there? What kind of mover are they?
And then you're talking about getting into, for me, a little bit of,
[00:23:38] Speaker B: I
[00:23:39] Speaker C: guess even before that. And this is, this is still also like more front end legwork. Like watching them actually pitch. Like how competitive are they? I don't like guys that yell at the other team. I like guys that yell at their own team and like show emotion in the right direction. I think those are my favorite guys to recruit.
The guys are really excited about being good teammates and winning with their team.
I talk a lot about just not even acknowledging that you even have an opponent, that there's not even somebody in that other dugout. But you know, usually you should have an idea if they're a good competitor before you even go see them. So that's just kind of like something off the checklist too. Watching how, watching their presence, watching their tempo, if making sure that everything checks out there. But then you're kind of getting a little bit into if you have any data, like trackman stuff, you know, just trying to get some slow motion video. If you have an iPhone, something good. So you're seeing how the ball's coming out of their hand and then just kind of pairing that with what they look like, how they move.
And are we going to be able to like change things? Do they do things like what do they do really well? What can we tweak what's missing?
You know, are they ever going to spin the ball really? Well, like is, is a change up an option? Are we gonna have to get, you know, dive in and do a kick change, splitter kind of thing?
But really for us, we, I don't, I don't feel like we can be super picky about, you know, having a certain, like, oh, like we're only getting guys that's been a breaking ball at 2,800rpms. Like, nah, man. I just want really academic guys that are really competitive that have a skill and they have, they have the ability to add more to that skill as well. One thing that we were really successful at before I was in the Ivy League was any kid, any pitcher that we recruited, they had to have the ability to get through a lineup, an Ivy League lineup, one time. So nine outs. Do you have a trick that can get me nine outs?
And you know, that's kind of what I'm looking for now too.
And once we identify what that, what that trick or that skill is, is what, what can we add to it? Is there more V on the table?
Can we add, can we add a gyro, A gyro slider, a cutter, you know, whatever it is, Looking at movement plots, is there a hole missing, you know, the reverse hook, whatever it might be.
But.
And then once we do that and once they commit to us, a lot of it's just trying to get them as prepared as possible, making sure they're in a good facility, making sure they're taking care of themselves. You know, for us, they have to keep going to class.
You know, if you don't go to class and you slack off a little bit, the school's just going to flat out tell you you can't come.
So we, we have to do a lot once you commit before you even get to campus. Because again, we, we get seven guys some years, so we need all seven guys.
From the time they commit, they've got to be, they've got to act and feel as if they're already part of the program. And that's how we view it.
So they already have certain expectations. Even though we can't just hand them, you know, a lifting program or a throwing program or whatever. And that takes a lot of communication on my end, making sure they're in a good facility, you know, making sure I'm talking to those guys. I don't like, I'm probably a little different in this aspect.
I don't like stepping on facility guys toes. If they're there and they're paying money, it's my job to make sure that they're in a good spot, but like, our, our best pitcher is in Arizona at this really, like, high tech facility and stuff. And I was talking to the guy that runs it and he's like, you know, is there anything that you want me to do and stuff. And I'm like, nah, man. Like, I'm not there. You just broke everything down. It sounds awesome. Like, he's with you every day. Like, I don't want any part of this at all. I want to know what's going on.
But, like, you guys need to do your thing.
Like, that's why he's there.
So, you know, it's my job to make sure they're in the right places.
Obviously, this was a weird situation. I wasn't here at the beginning of the summer, so I don't, you know, guys are in different spots, whatever. So.
But moving forward with guys committing and guys going out and summer ball and stuff, it's. It's my responsibility, it's the pitching coach's responsibility to make sure they're going to good spots and that they're well taken care of. And if they are in those spots, like, I don't want to medal. I want them to have a new experience, hear a new voice, learn new things and bring something back that's, you know, maybe I don't know or maybe I don't do.
And I'm totally fine with that. Like, there's people out there that are way smarter than me, totally cool. They've got different ideas than me. Again, it's just my job to make sure they're in the right spot. But I think it's really important for high school kids to have that experience because oftentimes they're going to be in there with other college commits. They're going to be in there when college kids come back from vacation and stuff, and they're going to learn a lot about college baseball without actually being there. They're going to hear a lot of stories, all that kind of stuff.
And then really from mine, it's just monitoring at that point and just making sure they're as ready as possible, physically and mentally ready for what's about to happen to them when they get on campus.
Is that good?
[00:29:42] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
I think you hit on a thing that's important to you guys because of the numbers. Like, you can't have a bad seed.
[00:29:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: And we just did a podcast about parent behavior and kid behavior and everything. And like, I don't think you can overstate how important that is, just broadly right. Like, even the best programs in the country. Right. National championship caliber teams. Like one bad seed can throw you off.
[00:30:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: And I think it's.
I've. We've obviously known you for a long time and that's something that's always been really important to you, is that a kid and you and the kid are on the same page in terms of expectations.
What I'm going to challenge you to do, what I expect you to do. Are you the right type of person that's going to vibe?
I'm not sure enough of that legwork that you talk about gets done often.
And I think it's really cool that one that you do it, but two that you articulated. Like there's some coaches who are going to listen to this that I think could learn a lot from what you just talked about. Right. Making phone calls, like having an understanding of who you're getting on the phone with before you even have that conversation.
And I think sometimes in, in this world you might not get to see a kid a ton.
So you just default to like what they do on the baseball field when that character piece can like really be an elevating factor right now.
[00:31:23] Speaker C: So that's something that for us, we don't.
We always joke, you know, we get a picture from California, we might get two chances if we're lucky to see him.
And like, we always used to joke. Yeah, when I first got to Columbia, us and Dartmouth were all over the place. And this is, you know, 2015, 2016, and the Ivy League was way different then.
And like, I'd go, I went and saw Carson Seymour. I think he made his big league debut recently.
And I went and saw him and he was, he had the worst outing I've ever seen at the Arizona Fall Classic.
And he had just visited us in Dartmouth. Like, he like big, physical kid, you know, great wrecks and stuff.
He ends up going to Dartmouth and coach was like, I thought you said he wasn't good. And I'm like, dude, he ain't getting out in there in, in the academic game. I think all six guys reach base. He might have like walked three. And then like the hits he gave up were Rockets, Rockets.
And his velo was. He was terrible. He was low 80s guy, he moves slow, goes to Dartmouth, eyes like 92 to 94 as a freshman or something like that. He ends up. I mean, it worked out great for us because he transferred to Kansas State, but, you know, like, they saw him on a different weekend than us and that was our only viewing of him.
We had all these Recommendations that were really good, like, oh, he's a guy, and I probably saw his worst outing ever. And this. This kid's in the big leagues. And I was like, ah, he's not good enough to pitch at Columbia. Like, so that, you know, I've learned a lot since then, and I. If I saw him today do the same thing, I wouldn't recruit him. Like, it was just one of those weird things that happens every once in a while. But for us, like, that. That's it. That's the only viewing. So let's say he was 86, 88, good slider, really competed, and that's my only viewing.
I.
I need a lot more information if I'm gonna take one of our three or four pitchers that year and be like, you're the guy, Carson.
Like, you're the guy that we want.
I need more information than that. And for me and our. Our staff, have. You haven't been here long, but I've known Coach Keane for a while.
He's our recruiting coordinator.
And, you know, he's the same way. He's like, yeah, I just. I try to compile as many names around the country of coaches I meet and I try to talk to them. I try to figure out if they know what they're talking about so that, you know, when the time comes and. And I see a kid in Seattle, randomly in Georgia, you know, I. I can call Rhett at PNW and be like, what do you think? I know you've seen this kid 10 times. Like, I need to know. I've seen him once and, you know, maybe a high school coach in this league that I've talked to before.
But, yeah, We're. We're getting one or two viewings. It's not like we're recruiting everybody within 100 miles of us. It just doesn't work that way for us. So you have to have those connections. You have to have people that you trust.
You don't have to. You don't have to.
But I think if you want to give yourself the best chance to get the right guys, the right people and the right competitors and the right athletes on campus, they're. Dude, talk to as many people as you can.
I'm. I'm texting you about guys the other day, like, because I know that you've seen a bunch of guys in Northern Virginia recently. I'm ralling off names for you, being like, yo, this kid reached out to us. Like, have you seen him? And usually it's no, but, like, I don't Know what? If you have great.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: Well. And even if it's a no, that can be like, well, I haven't, but I know a guy who I trust that you can reach out to, and he'll give you. He'll give you a good answer. He'll give you the no BS answer of like, hey, is this kid a good player? Because he coached against him three times in high school, and he's watched him play travel ball for the last two years. Like.
[00:35:55] Speaker C: And that's the other thing is, you know, you said the no BS answer.
We know the guys that we can't trust, where it's like, dude, I got a guy for. He's 88 to 90.
You watch him throw one pitch and
[00:36:10] Speaker B: you're like, play like DiMaggio, right?
[00:36:17] Speaker C: I remember there was a kid, he ended up in the Ivy League, and I'm standing there next to Coach Decker. He's the head coach at Harvard. I'd driven up to Boston, and he's at a school up there, and I'm just. I'm the only guy there.
And we'd seen video, this kid sidearm, 85. 87 is what everyone's telling us. And he throws his first pitch, and Coach Decker's there with his gun. And, you know, we'd said our hellos and stuff, and he just looks over at me. He's like, you get 85 to 87? I was like, 78. Yes.
I'll see you in a couple weeks. He just walked away like, yeah, now I know I can't trust that guy.
[00:37:02] Speaker B: Yeah, that's not Coach Deckard.
Yeah.
The fella who may have recommended. Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:12] Speaker C: So both of you guys,
[00:37:21] Speaker B: what do you got, Keith?
[00:37:22] Speaker A: There's a long, awkward pause there.
[00:37:24] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah, I just.
[00:37:26] Speaker A: I. I wanted to.
[00:37:26] Speaker C: I wanted vibration. I know.
[00:37:29] Speaker A: I wanted to throw my two cents into this podcast. 40 minutes in.
[00:37:33] Speaker C: Yeah, go ahead.
[00:37:37] Speaker A: No, I. I think that you're.
You're dead right on a lot of this stuff, especially when it comes to the.
I think it's important for high school kids and really anyone who's going through the process to understand that.
This is where I think some of the pressure comes, right? Like, you might only get one viewing or two at most in some regards. And if that's what it is, like, guys make decisions on what they saw in front of them with their own eyes. And there are certain people out there that they trust. Like, we're talking about that. Like, yeah, no, he's a dude. But if you see it, and it's as Bad as you saw it was like, you can't necessarily take that.
And that happens a lot, you know. And I think that that's where some people get jammed up of like, well, like, you know, he was really good on these five other occasions. Like, yeah, but I didn't see it. I don't know what that looks like. Like, I've seen 10 other arms that I think are better do way better than what I just witnessed.
And it happens very frequently. I mean, there's plenty of guys, you know, Coach Reina at U of R and I talk about this all the time. Like there's. You went through our databases. We probably had a lot of the same kids. Like there were kids on his roster that destroyed me at RPI for three or four years. And when I saw them, they just weren't that good. And when he saw them, they were really good. So they end up at U of R and killing me and vice versa. Like, there's some guys that were on my roster that were really good against U of R that when he saw them, they weren't very good. And when I saw him recruiting wise, like, they were electric, you know. So it happens quite frequently, you know, and unfortunately, like, you know, it might not be the school, it might be a school you want to go to, but you usually ends up being other options for you if you are ultimately that good. Like, Dartmouth isn't necessarily the worst place in the world to land academically or athletically in the Ivy League. So, like, you still had options, you know, so. But I think it's important for people to kind of understand that, that, like, yeah, there is some pressure to this, but there is a stark reality that, like, someone should watch you throw and it's the worst outing of your life and that's the only thing they've ever seen. It's going to be really hard to convince that coach that you're better than what they saw. And they should definitely continue to recruit you and even potentially offer you a spot on their roster.
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[00:41:08] Speaker C: I think from, from a coaching standpoint, too, it gets.
I don't.
I learned this from one of my previous bosses who I think is as good as it gets as a college baseball coach.
And, like, I learned from him really quick. Like, it's okay to lose guys if you're not sure.
Like, we're, you know, we're talking about the kid that you get five great wrecks from and you go out and see him, you're just like, is this the same guy?
You know, like, then you start doubting yourself, whatever, and you're like, oh, what do we do?
And that was, that was something that I talked about with our, our staff here.
When, when I was going through the interview process is, I was like, I think something that's unique in the Ivy League is you have to trust yourself as a coach a lot.
And if you do, you won't make panic decisions in recruiting.
Like, he's got offers from these other two schools in the league. Like, I haven't seen him as good and, like, he didn't fit with what I want. I know these people are saying, you know, X, Y and Z, but, like, do you have the confidence in yourself that you'll one be okay?
Like, you know, like some, some college coaches, like, they lose somebody and they're, it's like panic mode. It's freak out central, and like, their head coach isn't going to take it well.
All right, man.
But, like, do you have the confidence in yourself that you can find the right guy and maybe he is the right guy and you just, you just didn't see him on the right day. It happens. But do you have the confidence in yourself and the rest of your coaching staff to be like, deep breath, we didn't seem good. Like, we got to move on. Like, he's got 48 hours to make a decision. He wants to come to Yale.
But, like, I just don't know.
I'm not 100% sure.
Like, are you okay saying that out loud and then living with the fact he's going to be in your league for four years?
[00:43:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:41] Speaker C: You just hope four years from now you're not going up to him, you know, on their senior day and being like, you really stuck it to me, huh?
But I, I think it's a huge self confidence thing as a coach to be, to be like, he's got all these offers like he did, or, or maybe you saw him good, but he just doesn't do what you want or like need at the time. Yeah, we've talked about this. There's.
You see a good catcher and you took catchers last two years in the Ivy League, you can't take another catcher. You only get seven players.
Like, you can't take a catcher every year.
And you're like, you got to be okay with, with being like, damn, man. Like, you're a hell of a player and we're going to see you for the next four years. But you don't, you don't fit right now with what we're looking for in the recruiting class. And that sucks. But we'll be okay. Like, we'll still coach really well and we'll still put a really good team together.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: Coach Rossi said all the time I'm, I'm grateful that I learned this when I was younger. He's like, all the time, he's like, wow, there's plenty of players out there.
[00:44:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:52] Speaker A: Have to find them.
[00:44:54] Speaker C: Yeah, you have to work a little bit harder. And I think that's another thing.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: It's true.
[00:45:00] Speaker C: Guys get lazy. They're like, oh, we got to offer them.
[00:45:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it's true when you lose them
[00:45:04] Speaker A: and it's true when you, when you see them bad and you don't want to offer them.
You know, and I, and I do think in, in some regards in coaching, you have, I mean, I agree, I think some people get lazy, but I also think, like, in some instances, like when you haven't seen someone be really good and they are getting a decent amount of traction, like, there is a little bit of confirmation bias in there where you start to doubt yourself about what you actually saw.
Like, the other coaches are like, if there's other coaches in your league or other coaches that are similar profile programs are on that kid. And you're like, I just haven't. Like, you start to doubt a little bit. It's natural.
[00:45:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, should I like this kid more than I do? Yes. Like, it, it should.
[00:45:55] Speaker A: I like him more than I do because there's a ton of people that are on him. But I think ultimately you have to go back to like, you have to trust what you saw and that's, that's hard to do sometimes, but I think that's when you can legitimately start making Growth as a coach and understanding what recruiting and development looks like. Because that, you know, you guys were talking about it earlier, like, that kid's not in the 2028 class. They're not going to throw until 2029.
[00:46:22] Speaker B: We lose.
[00:46:22] Speaker A: There's a lot of people who lose sight of that in the recruiting process of, like, well, he's not good enough now. Like, yeah, he's not throwing for two years for you. Like, you can't get that kid better in two years. Like, what. What are we doing? Why are we coaching? What's the point of it?
And I get frustrated about it. But, like, you know, one of the people that we know very well taught me that very early. Like, you're saying that kid can't play in the back in 18 months.
And I was like, that's actually a really good point. I have never really thought about it that way.
But, like, there's truth to it. Because you, like, you can't look at a high school junior and be like, yeah, he can do it right now. Because you're probably not getting that kid.
[00:47:09] Speaker C: Right.
[00:47:10] Speaker A: That's the reality.
[00:47:11] Speaker C: Yeah,
[00:47:15] Speaker B: it is so true.
[00:47:16] Speaker A: Unless you're at an SEC or ACC school, those are the only places and likely, if they're that good, where they can do it in the SEC or acc. As a junior in high school, they ain't getting to you either. They're probably going in the first two rounds. Like, that's just the reality of it. Like, if you sit and watch a junior, no matter what level you're at, and you're like, you could play. He'd hit my lineup right now. Like, you. The likelihood of you getting him is damn near zero because he's better than your program.
And that, that. That's just the reality, you know, and it frustrates me from time to time, but, like, in the same breath, like, you have to trust what you see.
Then if that kid. If you've seen a kid that you don't think is going to be good enough to play in your program or doesn't fit your style of play, like, it's okay, just move on.
The world's not going to end. There's plenty of. And I would argue Andy and I did a podcast about this recently, and I don't know if you. If we've talked about this, but, like, I don't subscribe to the fact that this is the hardest, like, 2026 is the hardest for college baseball recruiting.
Like, I would.
I think every year brings its own difficulties. But at the same time, like, it's only stated 7 or 8% plays Division 1, 2 or 3 baseball for 25 years.
It's the same number. So the same amount of kids are going.
I would argue it might be a little bit more difficult, but because I think the country has shrunk with PBR and perfect game and social media and all that stuff where your reach as a program is a little bit longer than what it used to be 20 years ago.
[00:48:55] Speaker C: I, I also, I also think those things make it more challenging for kids because they.
Not in a number standpoint, but they have to deal with things that we never even thought of.
Like, you're. Yeah, there's gonna be. There's gonna be a kid from California this weekend.
Say. I, I don't know, just saying that, just throwing that state out.
There's gonna be a bunch of kids that do this, but there's gonna be a kid in California that's gonna go to Futures and he's gonna hit a big number.
Like, he'll be like 94 to 96.
And some kid in South Carolina is gonna see it on Twitter and they're gonna tell all their friends about. And this kid.
Everyone around the country is gonna know who this kid is.
Now, not that the three of us were that good, but, you know, that wasn't a thing when we were getting recruited and playing high school baseball, so it wasn't.
[00:50:00] Speaker A: But neither was Diamond Nation or Baseball Heaven or any of these giant tournaments where the 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 colleges show up to watch kids play.
[00:50:10] Speaker C: Right.
[00:50:11] Speaker A: In a complex setting where you can, you know, you can get seen a tad bit easier. Like, we, We.
[00:50:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
My point isn't necessarily a being seen part. It's more the mental fatigue.
[00:50:25] Speaker A: Yeah. No, I don't envy the kids that go through this. We didn't have to deal with it.
[00:50:29] Speaker C: Like, there's. There's a whole other set of problems that they deal with that has nothing. And it's better for them now because, you know, Seattle can recruit a kid in Virginia.
Yes, they can see him on Twitter.
But at the same time, you know, you're.
You're comparing yourself to all these other guys and there's a lot of mental just crap that these kids have to deal with that.
[00:51:05] Speaker A: I agree with you.
[00:51:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:51:07] Speaker A: I'm saying just from a straight up being recruited standpoint.
[00:51:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:51:11] Speaker A: I don't think that it's the hardest it's ever been.
[00:51:14] Speaker C: No. But I, I do think this stuff factors into recruiting and it, like, it weighs on guys and, you know, there's There's a lot of, you know, a lot of guys now show up and you get to know them and you're like, whoa, man.
Like, there's a lot going on in that head. Like, oh, yeah.
When I got to college, I was like, where's the field? Where's the baseball house and where's the McCann Center? Like,
[00:51:47] Speaker B: can you point me to the cafeteria, please?
[00:51:50] Speaker C: Yeah, you're the cafeteria police, you know. Yeah. I was, the only thing I was worried about was, oh, man, I hope they don't ask me to slide my car back onto the door.
Like, yeah, like, that was our mental
[00:52:02] Speaker B: trauma shout out Kevin Grauer.
[00:52:06] Speaker C: Like, oh, no, I only have like five more swipes this week.
[00:52:09] Speaker B: Like, that is, that is a, it's a, it's a, it's a real thing for thing. But I, I, I was on the fence with this for a little while too. But, like, I think it might be a little bit harder to get into the 7 or 8%.
But I think the, I think the cries for this is the hardest thing because of the new rules.
I think the more I've looked into it and the more coaches I've talked to, I think it's a little bit Fallen on deafen ears for me.
[00:52:37] Speaker C: No, it's just different.
[00:52:39] Speaker B: Yeah, it's different.
[00:52:41] Speaker C: Four years from now, it's going to be different again.
[00:52:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:45] Speaker C: And there's going to be a whole new set of problems.
[00:52:49] Speaker B: Four years, we might, who knows, SEC might break away from the NCAA based on recent reports, so we could have some major changes here in the next calendar year.
[00:53:02] Speaker C: So be great.
[00:53:03] Speaker A: See you later.
[00:53:04] Speaker B: I digress.
[00:53:05] Speaker C: See you later.
Go do your own thing.
[00:53:10] Speaker B: So you talk about. I want to, I want to give the inverse of this because I think you both nailed it. That, like, you got to have conviction.
Right. And if everybody else likes them and you don't, Are you comfortable enough to say no?
But we've all been on the other side of it where you're recruiting a kid and you're looking around going, why is nobody else talking to him?
We've all been there.
[00:53:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:35] Speaker B: And we've all probably had guys that you get them and they end up being everything that you thought they were going to be. And you're kind of laughing at everybody else going, like, can't believe you guys didn't see that.
And then you've also had the guy that you recruited and not a lot of, a lot of other guys did and maybe not had ended up. But like, I think that takes conviction, too, because there's some guys who just don't get out.
They don't play for big travel teams, they don't go to big tournaments. And you just happen to find out about them because of a connection.
You see him a couple times and you're like, is, has nobody else seen this guy?
[00:54:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
So great example of that and I hope, I hope this coach is listening.
So we committed a kid at University of San Francisco, he was 85, 87 at Futures.
And the three schools that offered him were US, Columbia and Air Force. He didn't want any part of Air Force. It's Colorado Kid.
There was one other school, BC was sniffing around them and they were thinking about offering a walk on spot and Coach Vance decided not to offer him a walk on spot.
And I was like, dude, this kid's gonna throw nitro and advance. Is like, yeah, I think you're right, I'm not positive. And let's get skip through futures. And the reason I like them was Dennis Healy's old thing. Like, if you can really spin a slider and it's really hard, like you're going to throw hard. And he just, like he was little, he had an older brother who ended up transferring to usf. That was huge. His dad was huge.
You know, his first pitch as a senior in high school was I think 97. And I was like, oh, great, like, cool, man.
End up getting drafted, signed for like double slot. Like, it was awesome for him. But that was one of those ones where I was like, dude, I think this kid is unreal.
And I know everybody saw him.
I was like, like.
And the one thing that I did have a lot of conviction, like that helped me a lot was, was Vance being like, dude, I think you're right.
I'm like, why don't you offer him? Then he's like, I don't know if you're that right.
But yeah, like I had this thing that I had learned that he did that stuck out right away when I was watching video of him.
And you know, our staff at USF was all in, all on it and you know, we, we saw multiple times and you know, whatever. But yeah, it's. I, but I think going back to it because we've all, we all played for this guy, you know, Healey taught us a lot of these things. And I, I think all coaches as they're growing up and they play and they play for certain guys and they work for certain guys, they have certain things that they look for and when they see it, it's like, oh, like, there it is. But not everybody knows those things necessarily or looks for those things. So I think that's how that happens often where you're like, why is anybody else recruiting this guy? And I think he's awesome. It could just be like he does that one thing that, that one coach that you once worked for as a 23 year old that hounded the out of you and it's just like echoing in the back of your head at that moment. Like, this is it. Like this is why I put up with an entire year of, you know, working camps for $50, you know, on a Saturday.
Like, this is it. Here it is. Like this kid does that thing.
I think that's how it happens.
[00:57:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:50] Speaker C: I could be wrong, but.
[00:57:51] Speaker B: No, but that exact same quote was one of the big takeaways and of amongst a ton of them. We all have a huge respect for, for Coach Healy. If you're out there listening, I think you taught us more than we could probably ever articulate. But that was, that was the thing that stuck out to me when one of the things he told me it was. It was about Jacob Wiley and why he thought Wiley was going to end up being really good.
He's like, he can spin the ball at 82. He goes, I don't care about the other stuff. We'll figure it out.
That four or two years and Wiley's a draft pick.
[00:58:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Who's the kid from Lancaster area? Big kid, physical.
I think he might have been gone.
He was like 82. 84, huh?
[00:58:38] Speaker B: Hosio?
[00:58:39] Speaker C: Yes. He was like 80 to 84 in high school, but he's spinning a slider at 79. And he was like, this guy's gonna be legit. I'm like, he's a, he's a brick.
He was a.
He's like, you just watch like spin slider 79, fastballs 82. Like it's gonna be the man. And yeah, he was.
[00:59:05] Speaker A: The, the wild part about it is I can hear the, the cadence of him saying it.
Like when I played after, when I got into coaching class, he slider at 78. 79. You're telling me he's not going to throw harder?
What are you drunk?
[00:59:26] Speaker C: We back at the Hatter.
[00:59:29] Speaker A: But it's truly we.
When I was at RPI, there was a kid that we had a Brandon McNerney who was a kid who pitched for us. He unfortunately for his career, he pitched the same four years that Jake Fishman pitch in the Liberty League, who is a future big leaguer.
But he had a career sub 3 era at RPI and one of the. Arguably one of the best pitchers in that program's history.
But he was a guy who was very lightly recruited out of high school. He was big, he was physical, but he was like, 81 to 83 in the recruiting process. But he spun a breaking ball, like, 78, 79. And I just. It was like, two. Your point. Like, you hear it? And I was like, I could just. In my mind, I was like, this is it. This is. This is going to be the one. And no, like, sure, he showed up on campus freshman year, and first pitch was like 89 miles an hour. And by the time he graduated, he was 91, 93, bumping some 94. Has had some draft interest, you know, but he had a phenomenal career. He ended up. He's. He's a lawyer now, so good for him. But, like, you know, those. Those types of things you remember as a younger coach, and when you see it come to fruition, you're like, ah, yeah, all right, we got that one
[01:00:46] Speaker B: healing in the back of your head going, dude, you're going to recruit him, right?
[01:00:52] Speaker A: With his chin on my shoulder, yeah, you're going to recruit this kid, right? But, like, in those moments, like, when you have. When you have those things that, you know, I think that you, like, you can stick to your convictions on them even when no one else is really showing a ton of interest of, like, no, I know that you are going to throw harder. It is not.
I'm not worried about you being 81 to 83 right now. Like, could care less. And honestly, the knock and the recruiting process was like, yeah, he's big, but he doesn't throw hard.
And I just. I kept my little secret to myself of like, gosh, he throw. He spins it, though, and it's 78, 79. It's in there. It's just a matter of time for that to come out.
And it did. And I, like, truthfully, I've recruited a lot of kids that way.
Like, oh, you can spin it. Like, I just live by that mantra.
Oh, you can spin it. It's going to happen.
[01:01:46] Speaker B: Is, Eric, you've been doing this a long time now, which is kind of crazy to think about. Like, you're not that far off from having coach for 20 years, right?
[01:01:55] Speaker C: Oh, man, come on.
[01:01:58] Speaker B: But, you know, like, we go back to the Healey stuff, and, like, Dennis is an exceptional baseball coach, an exceptional evaluator that we learned a lot from. Like, are there any things that you. That you've picked up on when you're evaluating a pitcher that make you go, I like that. Like, I've seen that. I know what the future for that kid looks like because there's something that clicks.
Is there anything specific there outside of, like, can you really spin a breaking ball with some velocity?
[01:02:34] Speaker C: Man, off the top of my head, nothing. Nothing, like, really stands out.
Yeah, Like, I mean, that's probably the biggest one, you know, other than just looking at how guys move and, you know, absence of strength and stuff like that. But I don't. I don't really have a whole lot of, like, little.
I don't want to call it a gimmick, but, like, just little rules that I follow. Yeah, I. I try to treat everybody a little bit different, and just when you know it's right, it's right
[01:03:15] Speaker B: fair.
[01:03:15] Speaker C: It's more. More so, like, check. Like. Like checking off boxes of. Of things that I want them to do or, you know, skills that they need to have or can they do X amount of skills, actually, because I'm. I'm typically not getting the guy that can do everything right.
Do they do enough things right, and can I make them do a few more things right?
[01:03:40] Speaker A: I think the interesting thing when you talk recruiting and coaching and things of that nature is that.
And I'll say it to you, too, because you understand what I'm saying, and I think if there's coaches listening to this, you'll get it. But when you. When you do it long enough, you know what it looks like.
There's. There's certain things that you like. There's certain things that, like. But when you see it, you know what it is.
[01:04:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:04:08] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Like, it. It sounds.
I don't.
[01:04:13] Speaker B: I don't.
[01:04:13] Speaker A: I don't know the best way to phrase it, but it's like, it sounds like it's a secret when it. It's not. But, like, when you do this long enough, and I think that it's.
You know what I mean? Like, I. I feel like I'm saying this and it's like, oh, these guys are keeping this, like, veiled, and they, like. But no, like, I think you have to understand that as college baseball coaches or professional baseball, whatever it is, that is. That was my profession. That is your. Like, I was. I was a college coach for 16 years. The amount of baseball that I watched over the course of 16 years, I cannot quantify. And the amount of good players you see and, you know, guys you played with and, like, you know, you go back through the catalog of everything that you've done and seen. Like, when you see it, you know what it looks like and it's like, oh, yes, I like that.
And you can then start going through your checklist of things. But, you know, I think it's one of those things that it's, you know, when you do it, as long as we have done it and Andy and I have been out for a little while, but like, you can still show up to a game and be like, yeah, that kid can play or that kid. I, I don't think that kid's going to be able to do it or he's got to get more physical. Whatever the, the, the whatever he's deficient in, he needs to get better at these things if he wants to have a shot.
But it, like when you, when you do it enough and you see it enough, you like, it stands out to you as someone where, like that, you see that ball leave their hand, you're like, yeah, that, that right there is what it's supposed to look like. Or you see that first step and they, you know, work backhand side to get a ground ball. It's like, yes, right there. That, that right there is what it's supposed to look like. And that's what I want. And it's hard to put into words and it's hard to quantify.
But like, when you watch it enough and you see it enough, and I'm talking like not being a dad, watching your son play and seeing, you know, 50 games a year, like, I'm talking, you're watching hundreds of games a year plus practice and your own games. Like it's thousands, hundreds of thousands of hours of watching this and not just the Yankees on tv and then telling me that you're, you know, what baseball is like, we, we're on two different wavelengths here, you know, but it's true. Like, you watch it and I like, I always, I guess the easiest way for me to describe it is like I remember watching Kevin Smith take ground balls as a fresh. A freshman in high school inside in December.
And I remember like watching him take like three fungos and being like, where's he going to college? And they were like, he's a freshman in high school. And I was like, that is what it's supposed to look like. That is a high level Division 1 shortstop right there. And you know, not to say that I'm always right, but like, guy ended up playing at Maryland and then played in the big leagues. You know what it looks like even at younger ages for some people,
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Yeah. And you can start to make these comps and you can go, oh, that reminds me of that guy.
That guy was really good.
Like, okay, I need to figure out, does that kid have the stuff that that guy had to help made him good outside of just the physical trades. But, like, that's something that I always thought was valuable as a coach, is getting comps on guys like, hey, this guy reminds me of this guy. Well, now I've got a reference for, like, what the future might look like, especially going back to what you were talking about, about having some trusted sources. Like, you got some guys out on the west coast that I know you trust a ton. They have seen a bunch of guys and they can reference, like, hey, this guy reminds me of this guy.
And it always helped my evaluation because it gives you a little bit of a peek into the future when that high school coach that you know or the travel ball coach that you know goes, hey, the kid that you're talking to right now, he reminds me of so and so at the same age.
Well, if that so and so is a really good player, you now got a little bit of a glimpse into, like, oh, all right, now I can. I can project out a little bit more because somebody I trust is telling me, like, hey, they looked a lot alike at the same age. I always thought that was really valuable. And I think as a coach, the more guys you see, the more guys you track, the more guys you evaluate, you develop this library of that works. That doesn't.
I feel really comfortable coaching guys who do these things because I feel like I can elevate them because I have a track record of doing that.
I don't know where I'm going with that. It was just kind of stream of consciousness. But take it as you will.
[01:09:42] Speaker C: No, you're. You're. I think you're one or cooking with Oil.
[01:09:45] Speaker A: Now, I don't know why you ended it so abruptly.
[01:09:47] Speaker B: And I got excited. I got excited.
[01:09:49] Speaker C: Yeah, I. I mean, I got a. I got a text from our recruiting coordinator earlier of a video of a kid, and he's like, it's so and so, which is a kid that was in the Ivy League before.
Like, that's. Yeah, this kid's a. Going into a senior year of high school.
And my thought was like, oh, yeah, that's a good swing. Like, we should probably recruit him if he turns him into so and so.
I don't want to say his name, but, like, yeah, that kid's good.
But no, it's. It's true.
[01:10:21] Speaker B: It's.
[01:10:23] Speaker C: We. We've. We've a lot of places I've worked at. It's what we do. We're like, dude, this reminds me of so and so from, you know, five years ago at. At Cornell.
Like, oh, yeah, he's like the only kid in the league that ever. Like, he always stuffed it on us. Let's go recruit that guy.
He does the same thing.
You're totally right, though.
[01:10:46] Speaker A: Like, that's.
[01:10:48] Speaker C: You're drawing comps and you're just. You're trying to.
You're trying to make the most. They're all guesses.
Everything. Everything with baseball is percentages.
You're just trying to give yourself the most information possible.
You know, it's why, like, hitting the ball hard is important. Doesn't guarantee you're going to get a hit, but you're giving yourself the best chance possible to get a hit.
And that's what recruiting is like.
Like, you don't just go up on the mound and all of a sudden throw a pitch that you've never practiced before, because the strike percentage is probably going to be really low and you're not going to know what you're going to get.
And that's why sometimes, like, some older coaches are, like, rolling. We're only recruiting in the places that we've always recruited because I've gotten good players there, and I know the people that. That coach is trying to give himself the best chance possible to throw a strike, to hit.
That's all it is.
Giving yourself the best chance possible.
[01:11:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
You avoid the places that you don't have. You've never had success.
[01:12:03] Speaker C: Right.
[01:12:04] Speaker A: Even if there's good players coming out of there.
[01:12:07] Speaker C: Maybe you dip your toes in the water.
Yeah.
[01:12:12] Speaker A: But, like, there's gonna come a point in time somewhere. It's like, I've never had pitch.
[01:12:17] Speaker C: Pitch design. Bullpens can be Fun. Keith. Sometimes you find something cool in there.
[01:12:23] Speaker A: I spent 10 years at RPI and I, I struck out quite a bit in Western New York Central Western New York. I did not do well.
And it was just one of those things where, like I said, I dip a toe every now and then.
[01:12:37] Speaker C: But it's because you're a Giants fan.
[01:12:39] Speaker A: You didn't, you know,
[01:12:43] Speaker C: you just weren't equipped, you weren't equipped to get out there.
[01:12:46] Speaker A: I was not. You are correct. Now I live here.
But no, like, there's, there's a lot of truth in it. Like, you know, we did really, really well in Florida, NorCal and SoCal and the PAC Northwest. Like, we kept recruiting out of those areas because we got a lot of really good players out of there and I knew people out there, so we kept going.
But like, there's, there's truth to a lot of that stuff.
[01:13:18] Speaker B: All right, final question. Eric, do you have any parting wisdom, Wisdom for the listeners with regards to the recruiting process?
[01:13:34] Speaker C: I think the big thing there's, you know, we talked about the, some of the positive and positives and negatives, but like, I've always been big on this is they take time to get bigger and stronger.
Like watch, watch as much call it, find the places that you think you want to go and watch a game. It can be on ESPN Plus. You, you almost every.
There's so it's, it's awesome. Man, I love being on the west coast last four years because, you know, you'd wake up, Ivy League started it.
You know these, we used to play double headers on Saturday. The Ivy League used to play double hairs on Saturday. And it's like 8 o' clock in the morning on the west coast and college baseball's firing up on the weekend and we don't, we don't play till 6:30. You watch games all day long on ESPN Plus. So watch where you think you want to go.
And again, think about like, okay, I'm 18 months away from setting foot on the campus of Clemson. Well, what does everybody at Clemson look like then? You watch that game and you're like, oh, I don't look like any of them.
Or like, you know, you're 83, 85. And you know, they're running out guys out of their bullpen. They're 93 to 95. You're like, okay.
And that doesn't mean that you can't play there. You can't right now.
But you know, have some realistic expectations.
And part of that expectation needs to be what am I willing to do? How hard am I willing to work?
And what do I want to sacrifice to get what I want?
So, really, like, how bad do you want it?
That's important.
And the cool thing about, like, Twitter and social media is you can see all these players, you can see facilities. You can figure out what the best fit for you is, and you can, like, really try to attack.
Like, all right, how do I get in front? Like, okay, I want to play at uva.
Okay, I don't know if I'm good enough. And be honest. Be honest with yourself.
But I'm not that far off, so, like, maybe James Madison's the right answer for me. So, like, what's just below? You know, you're a Virginia kid. What's just below UVA and Virginia Tech? You start looking at James Madison. You know, George Mason's had some good years. Maybe I'm academic, you know. You know, I got really good grades. I can't get into Richmond on my own, but they might recruit me if I'm good enough.
And then just you know, kind of start figuring out, like, where.
Where do you think you can fit in in 18 months, say, and how much are you willing to work? What are you willing to sacrifice? What are you willing to give up in order to get there?
And one thing, I've had a hard time with this, and I get it, but, like, certain facilities, if you've been there for four years and you actually, like, you can look yourself in the mirror and be like, I'm working my ass off and you're not that much better.
Why are you still there?
Like, dude, leave. Go somewhere else. Like, if you can't. Like, if you really care about your. Your future, go somewhere where you're going to get better.
And I don't. I think kids are afraid of that. Parents be like, oh, like, you know, Timmy, Timmy's been with Coach Dave for so long. And like, yeah, Coach Dave.
Yeah. Timmy hasn't gained any velocity in five years, and he hasn't gained any weight either. May. Maybe it's time to make a change, but, you know, put a list together of where you want to play, something that fits for you. And. And again, like, are you an academic kid? Do you. You know, or grades not that important. Do you want to go to a big state school? Because, you know, we. I. I hear. I talk to you guys about this all the time, and it's like, yeah, I got Amherst and Coastal Carolina on my list.
What?
No, you don't.
Not anymore. You don't. Like, those aren't the same places, they aren't even in the same world.
Like, figure out what's important to you first, and then start making your list, and then start figuring out if that list matches your skill set, and maybe you're not far off.
How do I get to that? How do I get to that level? Am I in the right facility? Am I at a facility? Do I need to go to a facility? Do I need to play more? Do I need to play less? And just get my ass in the weight room and, you know, not play, gain 20 pounds, and then all of a sudden, the game's a lot easier for you in the spring, and you're like, I should have done this years ago.
But there's a lot of questions that people don't ask themselves.
And I think when you're really going about this process, you need to ask yourself questions of what you want.
And I. I talk to our pitchers about this all the time, and this goes deeper than what they like, dude, what do you want out of life?
Like, write it down. How do we get there?
You know, do you want to live on a lake and be a doctor and just, you know, retire when you're 40 and whatever? Do you want to play professional baseball? Like, want to do charity? Like, what? What do you want to do? What do you want out of this? So what do you want out of your career? What do you want out of life? Blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think it really starts with writing, writing down a bunch of questions, answering those questions, being truthful, and start putting the puzzle together, start putting the pieces together, and again, trying to give yourself the best chance possible to have success.
Like, I think this is a very important part of the process, is figuring out what you want out of this.
[01:19:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think Keith would echo this sentiment that I think that all of that stuff is wildly important. And I think the two things that hit home for me, what you said is you got to be honest about where you're at so that you can plot a path forward for where you're going. Right. Just because you want to play a uva, you might not be good enough right now, but if you recognize what it takes to play at that level, well, how do you close that gap? Right. And then figuring out what's really important to you, not what other people are going to think is cool, but what's really important to you in this process and what's going to make your experience really good and something that you look back on and you're proud of. I think that Oftentimes we conflate both of those team things with, well, what's the. What's the top of the mountain? And let me see if I can reach that. And then what are other people going to think versus, like a true reflection of where am I, how do I fit into this and what's actually important?
And when you start to peel that back, I think you, you give yourself a chance to understand, this is what I have to do. Am I willing to do it?
And you give yourself a chance to put together a plan that you can actually follow through on and be successful. Because to your point, if Amherst and Coastal are on the same list, which. It's so funny that you brought up that combination.
Your. Your list isn't very well thought out. You don't, you don't have any idea what you're looking for.
[01:21:36] Speaker C: Yeah, like.
But you gotta, you gotta be truthful with yourself. You gotta ask yourself hard questions for a lot of kids, some kids. You know, there's kids at Futures right now that they're gonna strut out on that field, and every team in the country is going to want them.
Not every kid's at that event.
You know.
You know, there's. There's a reason Senior Futures is going on next door.
Those, those guys don't have anywhere to go yet. And they're. And they're good.
And you know, there's guys that weren't good enough to play in that.
So like some, some kids. And it sucks. But that's part of growing up. You gotta learn. You gotta. You gotta learn about yourself. And you need to ask yourself some serious questions. And as a parent, like, you need to have realistic expectations and.
Because I think if you, if the parent doesn't have realistic expectations. We didn't talk about this and with like, recruiting, but the parent for us is huge.
What we're getting into with that, um, you're going to ruin your kid's career if you put these unrealistic expectations on what they can actually do.
You're going to run them out of the sport or you're going to put them in a situation where it's going to be impossible for them to succeed and there's nothing worse you could do.
So I think it's not just the kid, but the parent also needs to have a very realistic expectation of what is going on.
[01:23:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a disconnect for sure.
Well, Eric, we love you.
We're glad you came.
[01:23:27] Speaker C: So. It's so adorable. I love, I love you guys too. Even though you're wearing those stupid glasses. Both of you.
[01:23:34] Speaker B: We're all going to have to add this.
We're all getting old. We got to keep our eyes fresh. But yeah, I can't thank you enough for coming on. I'm sure you'll be on again at some point here in the in the future. But I know I'm fired up to have you back on the East Coast.
The baseball world's lucky to have you in it. Still
[01:23:56] Speaker C: glad to be here.
[01:23:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:23:57] Speaker C: I'm sure we'll already read more times since I've been back than it did the entire time I lived in California.
[01:24:04] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's nice to have you respond to text messages at 7:30 in the morning and not 11.
[01:24:14] Speaker C: You know what I'm really not looking forward to is when football starts.
[01:24:17] Speaker B: No,
[01:24:20] Speaker C: but I, I guess part though is, you know, when the Eagles are beating the Giants in the third quarter, Keith goes to bed and it's still seven o' clock on the West Coast.
You know, Keith will we'll all be going to bed and it's not just me with my stream of consciousness.
[01:24:42] Speaker B: Wake up to 35 text message just Eric in a row.
Oh, that's too good.
[01:24:47] Speaker A: 47 birds tweets.
[01:24:50] Speaker C: Yeah, as it should be.
[01:24:53] Speaker B: You don't have to get up before the sun goes up to watch prem soccer now though.
[01:24:59] Speaker C: That's huge.
[01:24:59] Speaker B: That is a bonus.
[01:25:01] Speaker C: That first, that first Italian game every, every Saturday is at 3:30am on the way on the, on the west coast.
I might as well just not even go to bed.
[01:25:14] Speaker B: Those days are over.
Normal, normal times here now. So.
But really appreciate it man. We'll catch up soon.
[01:25:24] Speaker C: Thanks guys.
[01:25:25] Speaker B: All right, bye bye everybody.
Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and smash that like button for us. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram MD Baseball. If you want to find out what me and Keith do to help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check us out on emdbaseball.com take a few minutes to to check out our new online academy. I promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening. Check in with you next week.
