Interview with Boston College Head Coach Todd Interdonato - Ep. 163

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:11] Speaker B: Welcome to this week's edition of the Dugout Dish podcast. I'm Andy Kira Kittis, joined by my co host, Keith Glasser. Keith, how we doing? [00:00:18] Speaker A: Great. How are you? [00:00:19] Speaker B: Got another wonderful guest on today. I'm gonna kick it over you for the intro here. [00:00:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Tonight we have another high energy guest, somebody who I've come to respect quite a bit as I've got older and, and got. Became a head coach and got to know him a little bit more, but someone who is a phenomenal human being and a great baseball coach. And tonight we're joined by Boston College head coach Todd Inadonado. Ti. How are you? [00:00:46] Speaker C: Good, man. This is like a reunion of the last 10 to 15 years with all of us on the road together. So it's good to see you guys. [00:00:53] Speaker A: Great to see you. Thanks for joining us and taking the time to talk some college baseball with us. But before we get going like we always do for everyone, just give our listeners a quick synopsis of how gotten to Boston College. [00:01:06] Speaker C: So just going in reverse, this is my second year here at BC. Got hired in the summer of 23. Before that, I had a very long run at Wofford College. I was the head coach there for 16 years. And my first two years at Wofford, I was our assistant. So 18 years total at Wofford College and then three stops before Wofford. One at my alma mater, UNC Asheville, two years at Gardner Webb, getting my masters, and then I coached a year of junior college baseball at Fort Scott Community College. Those three stops preceded my move to Wofford and then that preceded my move to bc. [00:01:42] Speaker A: All right, the, I was. [00:01:46] Speaker B: Because the, the first time I met you was I was probably 23, I was working top 96 and I had no. Because you were a head coach. And I just assumed at that time that all head coaches were like, you know, late 30s, early 40s. And I had no idea how young you were when you first took over that Wofford program. [00:02:05] Speaker C: Yeah, I got hired at 28. I got hired in June of 2007. I was 28 at the time. By the time we coached in the spring of 08, I was 29. So it's, you know, really fortunate. I was, I was only coaching for six years before I got the head coaching job at Wofford. And yeah, it was pretty bizarre to be that young at the time. And as you guys know, as you get older, you realize back then how little you actually knew and how poor of a job you actually did at the time. I thought I was old and seasoned and was doing really well. And now, looking back 20 years later, I realize how many mistakes I made and how young I actually was. [00:02:48] Speaker A: It's crazy. Like, the first. I remember the first time. My first head coaching job when I was at rpi. I looked at my assistant who had never coached before. He was. He played at Wake and then played pro ball. He broke his arm actually playing pro ball and started in the. In the summer or in the spring with me. And I was like, listen, man, I'm gonna screw a lot of things up this year. Like, I just need you, like, speak your mind. If you have ideas, throw them out there. And he was like, what do you mean you're gonna screw things? I'm like, dude, I've never been a head coach before. He's like, yeah, but you've been coaching. I'm like, that doesn't mean anything. This is a completely different ball game, bro. [00:03:22] Speaker C: Like, it's like, totally new. It's like parenting. Like, you can be a parent like you dated before, right? Like, you can be a parent. You're like, no, no, that's not. That's not even in the same stratosphere. [00:03:30] Speaker A: No. It's funny because it digress for a second. I have a three and a half year old, and Andy is a new father. And Andy has called and been like, hey, what do you. What do you remember this? And I'm like, man, I know it's only been, like, three years, but. No, I, Like, I have. I have no recollection of any of that. Like, it goes so fast. Like, no, I don't remember any of it. Like, change them, feed them, put them to sleep. Like, if that doesn't work, I. I'm all out of ideas for you. All right, kick it off. First question we always ask everyone before we get on this conversation. How do you guys go about identifying players at bc? [00:04:07] Speaker C: So there's really no one particular way that we value over the other. And, you know, a few streams come in and then a few streams go out. Certainly, you know, like, most programs, people reach out to us, say they have interest in bc, and then we start to vet them and go through the process of either watching the video that's on the email or trying to find something on social media or whatever the case may be. When it comes to us identifying players and the stream going out, so to speak, you know, we basically start local and then just continue to expand out as we go. The most natural thing for us to do is go through the travel Ball programs that we have relationships with that are here in the Northeast, and then also all of the schools that have produced previous Division 1 players here in the Northeast as well. So it starts from there, and then you just continue to go. And I think what's really important for everybody to understand is we get a lot. I'll digress here for a second. We get a lot of questions, hey, how do I go about this? What's the best way to do it? And the bottom line is there is no best way. It's, you know, if we were to go through every single player on our roster, every single player in our roster would have a really unique way that BC got in contact with them for the first time. There's no cookie cutter way to do it. And we were having a conversation just this week. One of the kids in our 25 class is from California, and he showed up at a camp. We had got a good recommendation on him. We asked him to come to camp in the middle of the winter, like, California kid coming all the way to Boston in the middle of, you know, late December, between Christmas and New Year's. The kid showed up. You know, he had the credentials to back it up. We had the video. We liked what we saw, ended up making him an offer, and he committed, and he signed this fall. So, you know, that's an extreme example of basically being as cold call as it could be. But then, you know, we have. I'd have to count it up, but I feel like five to eight guys that are on our roster that are within 10 miles of campus, that, you know, basically grew up with the program and going to bird ball camp and coming to high school camp, and they were just known figures, and their travel ball team worked out on our field every Sunday. Right. Like, so there's just so many different ways to do it. But the most important thing that I always try to say is you're just looking for that mutual interest. Right. The mutual interest has to be there from both sides. And look, it's okay if it's not. Right? Like, it's just okay if it's not. And if we reach out to a player and for whatever reason, he's not interested in Boston College, like, that's fine. And if a player reaches out to us and we don't have interest for one reason or, like, that's fine, too. You just, you know, it's just kind of continuing to go and continuing to move as you go through the process. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the one thing that, you know, Andy and I talk about with our clients. And we, we talk about quite frequently on here. Maybe not as much as we probably should, but the, the idea of, of saying no to colleges or college coaches, like, and being comfortable with it. Like, I think sometimes a lot of people are like, well, I don't want to offend or, you know, upset the coat. Like, you have to understand that as college coaches and Andy and I are out of it now, but you're like, how many times a year a recruiting cycle we hear no so many more times than we say yes. Like we don't. You know what I mean? Like, we don't recruit. We're looking to bring in 10 guys. Like, we don't recruit those 10 guys. And all of them say yes. And no one said no. Like we're, we're hearing no a hell of a lot more than we're hearing yes. And I think it's important for people to hear just because it is okay. It's okay to hear no from a college that, you know, they're not interested in you and it's okay for you to say, hey, I'm not. That doesn't align with what I want to do academically or whatever the case may be. Like, that's okay because college, like, you're saving a lot of time, energy and effort on, in making that decision and going that route. Or just be like, hey, you know, right now, no, but I don't want to also shut the door. And that could also be an opportunity too. [00:07:59] Speaker C: For sure. I think, you know, we talked briefly. You know, you become a young head coach and you got to make decisions on how you want to run your program and so many different areas and recruiting and the process of recruiting and how you make offers and do you want to do a timeline? Do you, you know, do you want to deadline kids? Do you want to try to get them? Do you want to be open ended? Right. It's just a constantly evolving thing. And I don't remember how long it was. It felt like forever. You know, it was like the first 10, 12 years I was a head coach, our staff, I felt like we handled it different every year. Okay, this year we're going to give them as long as they want to give them. You know, we'll show them how much we care about them and we'll stay around and we'll be there. And then it went to, okay, we're going to start putting dates on guys, right? Like, you know, we can't do this. We can't keep recruiting these guys if not going to get there. So, like most things, when I don't feel like we have a clear cut answer, I think like a lot of us in this game, we just go down these rabbit holes that are too deep and, and take too much time that we're willing to admit. So I went back and I looked and I did it when I was at Wofford and then I actually did the same thing here at B.C. because one of our assistants here was on the previous staff and then he's, he's with our staff as well. So he had the history of the recruiting. But I went back and I just started going through it and I started looking at all of the players that we had over the years that were the most impactful, but not necessarily the best players, but the guys who like maximize their career. Right. We originally had this player evaluated as X and he was X plus 20%. Right. Whatever X was. And then I started looking at the players that we felt like underachieved, whatever their expectation was. Okay, if we felt like their expectation was X, these players performed at X minus 20% from where we originally thought they were. So I tried to tie that into recruiting and I tried to figure out a way to. What's the best way to go about recruiting in terms of what you're talking about? Glass. Right. Like, if you're going to say no, like, let's go ahead and move on. So really what it came down to, and the trend held pretty true at BC as well, is once you, once the player, the recruit in this, you know, once the player has all the information, they know what the offer is, they visited the school, they've interacted with the coach. Right. Like once, once the package has been complete, if they don't say yes within about two weeks, they're either not going to say yes or my research told me they were going to underachieve. Which you would actually think. When I first started out on this little quest, I actually thought it would be the opposite. Right? You would think the best players would have the most offers and take the longest to make their decision. Right. That's what my mind told me. My mind told me that the best players had the most offers. They had to take their visits, they had to go through the process, they had to really chip it down. It just took a long time. You finally got them, they were your best players. It was almost the exact opposite, which was, which was crazy to me. So now when we recruit players and we've done this, you know, I know you guys had Jay on not too long ago. His memory is. Is really good as well. But I feel like this is kind of the model that we've operated under in the last maybe six to eight years. Hey, man, here's the deal. Like, you don't have a hard deadline. This is what our research shows us. If you don't say yes within the first two weeks, we're probably just going to move on. And it's not like there's an exact date. And of course there's extenuating circumstances and xyz. Right. Like there are no absolutes. But if you could sit there and you can kind of ballpark it to that two weeks, that's basically where the sweet spot is for us. So to us, right. Glass, to go back to your point is like the power of no. And it's been great, right? And it's. Hey, it's been two weeks. Like, where you at? Okay, we need an answer. All right, Coach. Like, we're just, we're just moving on. It's like, okay, if you say no, they're not going to tear down our facility. They're not going to tear up the field. Like, we're still going to have a program and you're still going to be a Division 1 baseball player, but at this point, it's just not working out and you move on. [00:12:05] Speaker B: You think that has anything to. My guess is that's buy in. And you get a kid who looks at it and it's like, that's where I want to be. I got both feet in that door. I want to play for BC or previously. I want to play for Wofford. That's the right fit. It's the right staff. I have all the information I need. I'm not hemming and ha over thinking that the grass is greener somewhere else. So when I show up, I'm invested in what I'm. What I committed to. I'm assuming there has to be some of it. That's a hard thing to quantify, but feel like that's kind of what you're driving at. [00:12:40] Speaker C: Yeah. Andy, I think you're spot on, man. And I think what. What goes overlooked in the process once these guys get here is what happens when things get really uncomfortable. Right? What happens when things and look uncomfortable can mean a ton of things. You're homesick, right? Whatever homesick is. You could be from an hour away or you could be from cross country. Like, you're homesick. Okay. You're uncomfortable with your roommate. All of a sudden you have a bad practice and your coach is Hard on you. You're underperforming, right? Like there's uncomfortable. Could be. It can come at you from so many different angles. To me, I, I could not agree with you more, Andy. Like when that moment of uncomfortable hits, if they have two feet into the deep end, it's. They lock down, they anchor down and they keep going. And that's what overachievers do, right? Overachievers just continue to work when it gets uncomfortable. And I know I use the word uncomfortable and everybody thinks has that differently. But what I think a lot of young players understand is how many different ways you can get hit with that feeling when you get to college. And I totally agree. It has to be the buy in, right? It has to be that. It has to be. I know school is going to be hard. I know playing at this level is going to be hard. I know. You know, they told me they're going to coach me hard. Like it's just the buy in. I think it has to be that [00:14:04] Speaker B: the kid who's kind of one foot in, one foot out, as soon as they do hit that inevitable moment of uncomfortable. To your point. And it can come in a million different ways. It could come academics, it could come with a breakup from a girlfriend. It can come because practice is hard. They have something in the back of their head going, I kind of knew that. I wasn't sure if this was the right fit anyways. And it kind of gives them an out. As opposed to your point where it's like, I knew this was going to happen because we've talked about it. I knew this wasn't going to be easy. It's not supposed to be easy for the people out there listening. You want to play in the accident, you need to prepare yourself to compete your ass off every day. And you're going to come out on a losing end more times than you probably ever have in high school where you were most likely the best player. And that's just getting with the on field stuff that can be difficult. Never mind getting acclimated to school and classes and the workload and the travel schedule in the weight room and adapting the coaching styles. Like there's so much of it and it's something we try to hit on. And I'm glad you're hitting on it here because it is one of those things that I think we see. I think recruits and families can kind of see the college baseball thing through rose colored glasses at times. And yeah, it's fun. And college baseball is something that if you can experience it, you need to take advantage of that because you're going to learn so much. But fun doesn't mean easy. And I think that, that there's a thick line between those two and you can have them both at the same time. But it's not supposed to be, you know, all butterflies and rainbows. It's supposed to be hard work. It's supposed to be difficult. You're supposed to get tested. It's. It's what, it's what it is. [00:15:46] Speaker C: And he could not agree more. Right. And one of the things that I think every head coach goes through is trying to be like very specific with language. Right. And the line of determination that I have in my head is there's a difference between having fun and enjoying something. Right. Having fun, I almost feel like equates to screwing around. Enjoying something is bearing the fruits of your labor. You put in a lot of hard work. You really committed to it. You see success, like, I don't know if I would describe that as fun. I would describe that as like really enjoyable and very self satisfying. Fun is hanging out with your buddies, doing whatever hobbies that you like, that's, you know, kind of gets you away from the game. And so I think enjoyment is really what guys need to strive for as opposed to, you know, fun. And I know that's like a very minor determination in language, but I do feel like there's an important one in there. [00:16:40] Speaker B: I think it's a key distinction in the two. [00:16:45] Speaker A: I think you, you nailed it. Like, it was the same. I had this conversation with our captains in 15 when we, we ended up losing to Cortland in the regional final where they were like, we just want to go back to having fun. And I was like, well, I need you to define fun for me because fun to me is like we have a circus tent up and there's elephants and giraffes running around and there's some clowns in a car. Like that to me is fun like that. That doesn't like, that doesn't mean we're going to put in a ton of hard work and effort to get to where we need to be. And when we defined what that was, it more or less came out to like, we want to enjoy going to the field every day and putting in a lot of hard work and effort to get to where we want to go. And that was a key distinction. We had a, we had a great year and you know, subsequent years we did a lot of the same stuff. But you know, I think that there is, when you are. When you do run your own program and you are recruiting and you're the face of it, the things like you, you do become very distinct in the things it is that you say and what they mean. Because you want that message coming from you. You want it coming from your assistants. You want the older kids to know that this is what we do here. Because when that freshman is struggling, his, for whatever reason, it might be like they know you and your coaching staff coaching them hard. It's like, hey, man, same thing happened to me four years ago and look where I am. Like, it's going to be okay. Like, this is like, you knew this coming in. This is what you get. And on the tail end of it, you're going to come, it's going to be better for you in the long run and you're going to be okay. And I think when you have that consistent message all the way through your program, like, that's when you start seeing those really special things start to happen. And, you know, it's just, you know, I think it, like, it always rings true to me. Like, and I'm glad you brought this up of, you know, when families come on campus and they visit and they see everything, you know, essentially what you're saying, and this is what we try to hammer home to a lot of people is what you hear from the coaching staff on your visit needs to match up when you get to campus, like, you can't be sold a bill of goods. Like, you need to also do a little bit of investigative work on your end, whether it's going to camp or on your overnight. Ask the kids, like, hey, what's it like? What's it like here? What's coaching out of? Like, like, and whatever they say better be true. And you know, and I think that that's where sometimes you also have some people who get there and they're like, well, I don't. I didn't know this. Well, that's, that's kind of on you if you don't know that. Like, ask those questions and get that information before you make the decision to go to said school. Because it's. You have every opportunity to do it and you want to make sure that when you go there, like, what, what you are being told in the recruiting process is what's going to happen. Like, hey, you're going to get coached here. I'm going to get on you. Sometimes if you continually do the thing wrong 8,000 times, like, eventually I'm going to lose it and yell at you and you have to understand I'm not like, I don't go to bed at night being like I'm losing sleep because Joey can't, you know, rotate right on a bunt D like, it's just, we've talked about this a billion times, man. I need you to make the jump to be the player it is that I think that you're capable of being. And I think when you know, they know that it's coming from that place, that's when you get more of that buy in. And guys who don't necessarily aren't one foot in, one foot out. But I'm glad you brought that up because I think that like knowing, getting all the information in front of you and if you know, for two, if in two weeks, you know, like, yeah, man, this isn't going to be for me. Okay, great. Because ultimately you look at his head coach of like, yeah, we probably, that kid probably wasn't going to make it here anyways as much as we thought we would. [00:20:26] Speaker C: Yeah, it's exactly right, class, right. Like we, we talk about it on our side as a staff. The ultimate objective for us in recruiting is we want to be so honest and we want to be so transparent and we want to be so upfront and we want to be so thorough. The ultimate objective is us as a staff. We feel just as good when a kid says no as when a kid says yes. [00:20:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:50] Speaker C: If that kid says no, we know there was something that wasn't connecting him to us, his mindset, to our mindset. And it may be a dozen different things, but that's really the objective that we get when we sit around the table as a staff and we say, okay, who are we going after? What are we offering him? What are we doing? Like, and then we just clearly define our break even point, so to speak. And not financially, right. Not the financial break even point. But hey, man, this is just exactly who we are. This is exactly what we want to do. And again, the ultimate objective is feel just as good hearing no as you do hearing yes. Because again, you want guys that overachieve and you want guys that are all in to Andy's point. [00:21:37] Speaker A: And I think the other thing too, and there's a lot of people who talk about this and you can probably elaborate too, but you know, being playing college baseball, especially for younger kids who are going through the recruiting process right now and ultimately ending up anywhere in college baseball. Like, you know, we talk about how what, like what, how difficult it could be those things, but just from the baseball side alone, you haven't gone through a season yet in your life of what you're about to undertake as a freshman, from fall practice to implementing defenses, to understanding cuts and relays and first and thirds and bunt defenses and just your general baseball iq, it can get super overwhelming. And I think that like, you know, for those kids, it, when you set foot on campus, you want to know, like, they're good. Like, I know what I'm going to get. I'm going to be coached and they're going to, you know, I'm not going to get, you know, run out of Dodge, so to speak, because I'm not maybe up to snuff. Because, you know, in the recruiting process they took their time and like have gone through everything. It is that they, you need to know going into that. And I think it makes you as a coach feel better about it and also, you know, as a play, like I'd rather hear no, if you're going to be one foot in, one foot out and. Because it's just going to create more issues down the road and we're all trying to avoid that as coaches in the recruiting process and you know, ultimately with our teams. [00:23:03] Speaker C: Yeah, there's, there's a really a point in there that I kind of want to unpack about. You know, you talked about how it can get overwhelming and a phrase that I use at nauseam is talent is not a separator. It's the price of admission. Right? Talent is just the price of admission. It is not a separator. And when I say it's not a separate, it's not a separator from your teammates, it's not a separator between success and failure. And it's certainly not a separator between you and your competition. It is simply just the price of admission. And you know, I'll tell a short story. We have a kid here, so we have our freshman class. You know, they're. They finishing up their first semester right now and we. One particular freshman was that X plus 20%. Right. Like just in the first semester, you're like, oh my gosh, like this is really glad we offered this kid. I'm really glad we got him. Like his was very non traditional and it's X plus 20%. And yeah, he's good, man. Like, he's good, but so are all his classmates. Right. And so are all his teammates. Right. Like he's, he's good, he's talented, sure. But like he's not. His talent is just the median in the group. So he Sends me a text one day, and he says, hey, I got a few questions for you about some things if you get like, 10 minutes. And I go, sure, man. I'll be in the building. You know, whatever would tie me down. Your long story short, I end up going to sit down with him in our players lounge, and I go, what's up, dude? What do you got? And I have this right here. This my thing. And he, like, has, like, this little journal, and he, like, opens it up, and it's just, like, covered. Remember the movie seven where, like, Kevin Spacy, like, the cr. [00:24:50] Speaker A: Right? [00:24:50] Speaker C: Like, that's what it looks like, right? Like, his journal was just covered. And he's like, all right. He's like, sorry, I just sat down. Let me see what I got here. And he's, like, fingering through this thing, and I'm like, of course. I'm, like, looking at it, right? And it's nothing but baseball notes. That's all it is. It's not like his calendar. It's not like his science homework. Like, it's nothing but baseball notes. And he's, like, flipping through, and he's, like, reviewing. It's, like, literally looked like at the end of every practice, everything that we introduced. He went back and journaled it, and then he reviewed it, and then he came back and he was, like, flipping through, and he's like, oh, here's one. What do I do here? Okay. Hey, you explained this the other day in practice. Can you tell me why that we do it this way? I understand what to do. I understand why. You know, I understand how I'm supposed to execute it, but can you give me a little bit more detail of why I need to believe in this? And I. I walked out of the room. I walked back, and I was like, well, that kid's going to be one of the best players in the league. And it was. It was just crazy to see, like, how committed he was to learning those nuances of it. [00:25:56] Speaker A: And. [00:25:57] Speaker C: And, like, I just, like, you can't ask every single kid to do that, right? Like, if I asked every single one of our players, like, hey, at the end of every practice, I need you to open up this journal. I need you to write down every single thing that you learned and then come back and review it with me. Like, yeah, we'd have three players on the team, but it was just crazy to see how committed he was. And. And as a coach, it just gave us so much confidence in his development as he moves forward, [00:26:26] Speaker B: you see a kid who's invested in it. [00:26:28] Speaker C: Oh, like, it was it. And you want to know how long it took that kid to say yes? It took him about two hours. Like, we made him an offer. We offered him in the building. He drove home. I was like, hey, man, take a few days. You know, both his parents with him. Hey, take a few days. You know, let me know. He called you. He's like, ahmed, this is everything I want. This is everything I wanted to be always. You know, he's somewhat local. Right. I always wanted to be a bc. Like, I'm in. Like, it was. It was instantaneous. [00:26:56] Speaker B: That's incredible. I mean, that's the stuff that you don't come across that often as a coach. And when you do, it kind of just gives you the warm and fuzzies. Like, to your point, you're like, if that kid's not going to be a star, it's not because he doesn't care. And, like, you can always live with that. Because to your point, if you're going to play in the acc, if you're going to play for bc, talent gets you in the door. But you. You never feel like you miss on a kid, if that's what that kid brings to the table every day, because there's something in him that's just a little different. [00:27:31] Speaker C: Yep. And I just think it's. It's so important for. For young players to understand is. And I know they know this. Right. Like, there's difference between knowing something and feeling something. Right. There's a. There's a difference between knowing something to be true and then feeling it. Right. Like, it's just such a huge determination. And I know these young players, man, they're. They're so talented. And we were, you know, we were talking about this before we jumped on how good college baseball is and, and how talented these guys are, and just the growth in stuff and the gross and athletic ability and physicality in the last five years is crazy. And I just feel like there's something in a lot of kids in the back of their head. I'll be fine. I'm really good. I'll be fine. I throw 93. I'll be fine. I'm a switch hitter that hits bombs. I'll be fine. I run a six four. Like. No, man, you're going to be fine if your mindset is dialed, because I just can't say it enough, man. Talent isn't a separator. It's the price of admission. [00:28:34] Speaker B: All right, let me ask you this. We've covered a little bit of this Talking about, like kind of the turnaround on the answer. We had a guy on Anthony Silkwood, he's a pitching coach at Jacksonville State, breaking stud of a human being, former Marine. And he flipped this on us a little bit because we usually be like, well, what are the things that throw you off in the recruiting process? And he likes green flags. Like, what are the things that make you feel really good when you, you find a kid who's got the prerequisite talent that you're looking for, right? And I know you guys look for specific things and, and you have stuff that you really value from a position player standpoint, a pitching standpoint. You start to get into that process where you're going to watch a kid pitch, you're going to watch kid play, you're on the phone with them, it's a visit. What are some things that you, in your experience coaching are green flags as far as feeling good about getting the kid who mentally is going to be able to compete at the level that you need them to? [00:29:34] Speaker C: That's. That's such a good way to say it, right? So my experience, I would, I think this is answering your question, right? But I want to, I want to answer it from a place of experience. So this may be like eight years ago. So I was at Wofford at the time. We get ready to do a visit and we get on a golf cart and we're getting ready to tour campus on a golf cart. And I get on the back seat, like facing away, right? And the mom is on the back seat with me and she's just like, hey, let me ask you a question. I'm like, sure. I'm thinking she's gonna ask me like, where the library is or like, who lives together? And she goes, what makes your most successful student athletes? And I was like, okay. Like, that is a much deeper question than I was ready for in the first 10 minutes of this visit. I go, you know, I've never answered that specifically. Let me think about it. You know, this is going to take three, four hours. Let me think about it. And at the end of the visit, I'll get you an answer. So sit down at the end. And I looked her, I said, I want, I want to answer your question. She goes, okay. And I go, it really comes down to one thing. She's like, okay. I go, how self assured and how confident is the kid and how comfortable is he in his own skin? It doesn't have to do with their sat. It really doesn't have to do with their athletic Ability. Yes. They have to have enough to get in, right? Like they have to, they have to clear the barrier of entry. But it's the guys that are most self assured and the most confident in themselves had the, have the least amount of insecurities. And when I say have the least amount of, I mean they're aware of them and they accept them, right? And so for me, when we go through the process of recruiting, that is all I'm trying to figure out. And you pick up on it on a. In a dozen different ways, right? How does the kid dress? How does he talk? How does he talk to his parents? How does he answer questions? Who talks for him? What does he talk about when he talks about his relationships? Like, like what are. And so all of a sudden you see it, right? And then you go watch him play and you can just see it in all these small little things about if they truly self confident, right? If guys are truly self confident and you're really looking for it in conversations, visits, phone calls and playing, like you can really start to see it. And that to me is the most attractive quality is we can get done with any interaction with a player. And I'm like, that is a self assured 16, 17 year old. Like that is, that is a kid who is really comfortable in his own skin. [00:32:12] Speaker B: That's got to be the best answer we've gotten to that question. Because I think it gets down to the core of it, right? It's not just do you play hard, it's not how do you wear your uniform? But it's a, it's a collection of, it's a collection of interactions that prove that self assuredness in multiple different arenas. Because it's one thing to be confident on the baseball field where you're probably the best player all the time. It's one thing to be comfortable in your own skin in that place because a lot of times that's kind of the safe space for a lot of kids. But are you able to take that into how you interact with mom and dad? How do you interact with your teammates? How do you show up for a visit, how do you prepare for practice? How do you do all that stuff? And I feel like that's a collection of information that leads you to the understanding that that kid has kind of what it takes. Because me and Keith talk about this, there's so much failure in this game and a lot of kids who are going to make that jump, especially to the level that you guys play at, they haven't had a lot of failure before. And in, over, in. In order to take that on and succeed despite it. That self assuredness that probably sometimes borders on cocky is almost a requirement because if the first time you give up a bolt in practice, you crumble and you don't have the ability to pick up the ball and make that next pitch, man, it's going to be a tough one for you because it doesn't get any easier is kind of what I'm driving at. So that's a. I really like that answer and I hope some, some young coaches out there are listening to that because I think it's, it's a hard thing to tease out. But if you're looking for it, I think you can find those guys. And I mean, shoot, I wish I knew that 15 years ago that how important that was. I didn't. You know, you don't figure it out until you're kind of around it. [00:34:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:11] Speaker B: And when I got to William and Mary with, with Murph and we had an older group and there were some guys who had exactly what you're talking about. And once you see it and you see it in action, it is so blatantly obvious that that is a massive separator, that you're seeking it out inevitably, or it's the wrong word. You're seeking it out with every single kid that you recruit because you understand that like that's what made that kid better. He wasn't physically that much better than everybody else, but he just never wavers on what he does, why he does it, who he is. He's so consistently himself that you get a really good result on the back end of it. [00:34:57] Speaker C: Yeah, I think we have a kid. I'll tell another story just to kind of cement the point home for hopefully some younger guys. Right. Like you said, you got a lot of high school players that, you know, listen to this and watch this. So we recruited a kid here, he's a freshman this year and he's striked R. That's what he is, right? Left handed kid, he's strike thrower, not, not overly powering, but three pitches consistently in the zone. And I knew he was going to get hit this fall. I knew he was like, there was just, there was no way that he wasn't. He was too in the zone. His stuff, his stuff needs to develop. And I just knew he was going to get hit hard. And during the recruiting process, I was looking for this exact quality. Right. Because I'm thinking, I know this kid's going to get hit. I know he's going to come in. I know he's going to give up some loud contact and if he has insecurities, it's going to cripple him and it's going to end his career. This particular kid. So he comes in, starts showing in the fall and has a couple good outings. First, you know, first outings, you know, two innings or so, something like that. And I don't remember when it was. Maybe it was outing two, three or four, something. He's just getting blasted. Like he's just, he's just getting blasted. It's 95 plus 105 plus doubles. I'm coaching third base. I feel like he's running by me backing up third more than he's, you know, more than he's doing anything else. And I just, I was just staring at him while he was backing up bases coming by me coaching third. And I was just looking for any chink in his armor for, from his confidence or so. Like I was just begging for him to give me something. And to his credit, he just kept throwing strikes and he kept getting hit and he kept throwing strikes and he eventually finished the outing. And as we went through the fall, he continued to get better and better. So we did our end of the end of the fall meetings and you know, we do them the way we do them. We, we do them in peers, right? Because I want guys hearing what everybody else working on, whatever. Long story short, so the kid talks and I just, I say this exact thing, right? Like, hey, if you were going to give up, you know, what makes you good, you know, it was going to be crippling. And he goes, yeah, the only thing I need to learn is like, there's no such thing as a good slider. Middle, middle. Like, I just need to know, I need to make sure that like we use the phrase in our margins. Like you got to throw your pitches in your margins. And he's like, I just need to be in my margins more and I'm good enough to control my margins. So that was really what I learned. And I was like, yes, yes. Like, this is, these are the answers. Like, this is what self assuredness looks like, right? The kid that I mentioned before, you've got to be really confident in your preparation to call in the head coach eight weeks into your career and start peppering him with detailed questions about the system that you're learning. You've got to be really self assured to take that loud contact and not be stubborn and cocky and arrogant to think that it was a bad day and not Be so insecure that you think you need to make wholesale changes. But to, okay, this is how I got beat. This is why I'm good. I can make this adjustment. Let's go. Like those, those two guys showing that level of self assuredness is what that looks like. [00:38:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's huge. We, I used to, as I got older and like, I, I, when I had visits and kids that we were legit, like, we were really into, go through the visit, go to the, you know, show them all the facilities and stuff, and we go sit and talk to my office. And the first thing I would do is sitting directly across me and be like, all right, what do you got for me? And I would just go silent because, like, but to your point, like, I wanted to see who was going to take control of the conversation. What questions do you have? How prepared are you? Because it leads to those things and everyone does it differently. Right? But like, I would do it to where, like, I wanted to see like, how, how self assured were you in this visit? And like, what types of questions and like Andy and I talk about like, you know, if you're going to sit in front of me and be like, do you guys go to Florida on spring break? Like, yeah, man, everyone in Division 3 does. You can just check the website. But when you come up with, you know, hey, what does it look like on, like from a travel standpoint and we got class and stuff, like, do I get like, what do I do? Like, do we have academic advisors? Do we like, what is tutoring look like? Anything that shows me that there's a thought process behind, like, what does development look like here? What's your plan? Things like that where like, we can really get into what it is you're most interested in. So you have all the information in front of you, you know. And we had a kid, a short story, but we had a kid, I've told this before, who came in, did that to him. Love this kid. He was a Boston kid. Loved, absolutely, like, phenomenal kid. Really good baseball player. Could Flat out hit 6 foot 3. Big bodied, physical kid. Shows up on campus his freshman year in the fall and he's crouched over hitting like he's 5 foot 6. And I'm like, yo, what are you doing? And he was like, I'm trying to create more leverage. And I was like, bro, you're six three. Like, you don't need to create more leverage. So we went through the whole fall. Like, I didn't really, I didn't make any real adjustments. Didn't have a hit, not in inner squads, not in coach pitch, not in anything. And he comes in at the end of the fall and you know, a couple of older guys are like, what are we doing? And I was like, I need him because I knew he could handle it. I need him to fail and then come into me and be like, hey, we need, like what do I need to do in order to get better at this? Not because if I change him and he doesn't have any success, it's going to be like, well, what did you do to me? And he came in at the end of the fall and he's like, okay, that doesn't work. What do I need to do? And we went through everything he had to do. Now his freshman year ended up being Covid, so we played like two games. But fast forward, he's an all, he's an all league kid his sophomore year, he's an all league kid his junior year. He ultimately ends up as a, as a multiple all region player at the Division 3 level who could really hit. And you know, I would if I didn't know that about him, to your point earlier, if I didn't know that he was going to be so self assured and confident what he was doing that he could handle that and he didn't know that he was going to get that from me. I don't know that he lasts four or five years there and becomes a multiple all region player. But like his, his ability to do that and the person and the kid he was made him the, the player that he was eventually able to become. And I think there's like anything else, like everyone does this differently. Like I wouldn't do that with every single player that's ever played for me, but like for him, I knew that that was the best route for him to be able to make that adjustment. And I think that, you know, when you go on these visits and you answer these questions and you do these things like you need to know and Andy and I talk about this a lot too, that you're like you're, yes, you are being recruited because of your talent, but you have to check the character box as well. And those things that you mentioned, the how do you dress, how do you interact with your parents, how do you interact with your siblings, how, like how you speak, who leads the discussion, are all things that clue coaches into whether or not it's going to be a good fit in their program. How many times have you been in a visit where the kid doesn't say anything and you walk away and you're like, kid's not going to. He's not going to be able to handle it here because I. I don't. A, I don't really know anything about him, and B, like, if he's a mute, that doesn't really work in my program. And, you know, on the flip side, you know, you walk out of there sometimes, you're like, wow, that kid, he squared away. It's going to be good. But I think I'm glad you mentioned the parent thing, because I've passed on kids in visits who were not kind to their parents, and it's like, hey, man, like, if. If you're not going to be kind to them, what. What's going to go on here? Like, that's not something that I'm. I'm going to deal with as a head coach. And I think from a coaching standpoint. And Traz said this, that one of the first times we did this, like. And you. You know this at this point, like, you start really realizing when you. The longer you become a head coach for coaches out there, like, what works with you from a kid standpoint? You know what I mean? Like, you know that there's kids out there that, like, might not mesh well in your program with your coaching style. And. And that's. It's okay to hear. No. From that standpoint. Like, it's. It's okay because it's like, it's probably not going to end well. Or when you come on the visit and you hear everything, you're going to hear things that, like, you don't really like. And that's okay. The more information you have, the better. But, you know, I. I think that those are things that are important in the recruiting process for people to hear that it might not be like, you could be a great kid and a great player, but it might be like, hey, man, he's not going to be able to handle the coaching or our philosophy or our style here, and that's fine. [00:44:09] Speaker C: Yep. Yeah. It goes back to what we said before. Right. Like, you want to feel just as good about here and no. As you do about here and. Yes. [00:44:15] Speaker B: Mm. I think this kind of transitions into. We don't usually get to this one, but I want to ask you this because we're kind of talking about what makes kids excel. Those. Those traits that allow kids to kind of figure out how good they can really be. The first six months for a freshman are difficult, as we've kind of alluded to. There's. There's things that are going to get thrown at them that are difficult. What are some of the, what are some of the steeper learning curves that you've experienced in your, your long head coaching career where kids that can kind of get kids jammed up? And then I guess on the flip side of that, what type of traits do you see in freshmen that outside of the self assuredness that allow them to be successful in those first six months, which are inevitably at some point going to kind of be a little bit of a gut punch? [00:45:13] Speaker C: Okay, that's a, that's a deep question, so I appreciate it. Right. Okay. So one of the things that we started doing, it's probably going on 10 years now that I believe really deeply in, is bringing all of the freshmen to campus for summer school before the start of their first semester. Something we started at Wofford, I think it was about 10 years ago or so now. And then they had started doing it at bc. Actually the first summer that they did at BC was the summer of the transition between, between Mike and, and myself. And then we, you know, continued it this, this past summer and we'll continue it from now until the day I die. And I say this because it's about creating a routine and that's what's most important, right? It's about creating a routine and it's, it's the power to compartmentalize. And I think really when you create a routine and you create the power to compartmentalize, you allow yourself to develop in every area, right? So for instance, when our guys were here this summer, their schedule, they pretty much showed up in the facility at 7:30 or 8:00 clock every morning, had breakfast in the facility. Half of them would go do all of their baseball related activities. Lift, throw, hit, sprint, right? All of it. And then the other half, half, excuse me, would work youth camp that was out on the field, that would take them to about 11:30, they would take 45 minutes for lunch. We'd feed them in the facility, then they would flip, right? The teams that were, the group that was doing camp is now doing baseball, vice versa, that would take them to about three o' clock and then we sent them up to the academic services building where they would basically go to class and they would go to class from 3 to 5:30, 3 to 6, you know, class was an hour and then tutoring on top of that. And really you're almost force feeding them a schedule, right? You're, you're force feeding them the ability to compartmentalize. Hey man, here's three different tasks I need you to do today. I need you to focus on yourself and develop as an individual. I need you to help the program out and serve somebody else in the form of an eight year old. And then I need you to go up, up the hill and I need you to dial in on your academics and then I need you to do that for six straight weeks. And the reason I believe so powerfully in the summer, summer school thing is because it creates that habit. And if we can show them what it looks like, right, like we go even so far as to take them grocery shopping, this is what you buy. This is the best bang for your buck. This is what you get, this is what you need. Like leave that crap on the shelf, man. If it's not in your house, you can't eat it, right? So just don't buy it, right? Don't even temp. Like we, we try to educate them in all those things. So now you're hoping by the time they get to that first semester, they've got a blueprint of what it's supposed to look like, but like I said before, more importantly, what it's supposed to feel like. And so for us, the guys that can compartmentalize and the guys that can hold themselves accountable to that schedule. Now, okay, now think about that, right? Like if you're dialed in and you're, and you're able to compartmentalize, when you go to class every day, you're going to sit there, you're going to pay attention because you're not worried about baseball, right? You're able to focus on the task at hand. Then when you go down to the field, you can really focus on what's happening on the field because you know you've done a good job the morning in the classroom, right? And then you go to Lyft or, and then you go home and you handle your business at home in terms of any homework or any assignments, prepping for a presentation, writing a paper, whatever it may be. And if you can basically roll through that now, you're going to build some confidence because you're going to start your see yourself succeeding in all these different areas. And then there's something in the back of your mind that goes, I got this, I can handle this. Right? And it basically all starts with that ability to hold yourself accountable. And it starts all with that ability to write a schedule, manage your time and compartmentalize the task at hand. [00:49:29] Speaker B: You freaking nailed it because you hit on all the different things. Like the compartmentalized thing is a different way that it's been termed that I love because I think the, in my experience, the guys who struggle that first fall is that everything bleeds into everything else. So you're taking class onto the field and then you're taking the field into study hall and there's no clear delineation between tasks. And the idea of like, when I'm in my 100 level biology class, I'm in my 100 level biology class and I'm cool with being right here because I know that I have the next piece of it taken care of and you've prepped for it and you're able to stay in that moment. And yeah, I just think about the guys who struggled a little bit their first six months at William and Mary, which academically is, you know, similar rigor to bc. It's usually just a bleeding of events into another event and then eventually they end up coming up a little bit short in all areas. And if we would have to sit down and try to recognize this guy and a guy early and give them that plan. And I love how you guys get out ahead of it and you give them the blueprint to success before they actually have to take the test. [00:50:46] Speaker C: Right. [00:50:46] Speaker B: And I like how you put serve some other people. I think that gets overlooked sometimes. I think it's cool that you, that those guys go and work youth camp and kind of give back to, to the community around Boston College. And I think it's just good for kids to be on the field with young kids who idolize them and, you know, they get a chance to interact with some young kids who are purely there because they just want to play baseball on BC field. That's right. I think that's really cool. [00:51:16] Speaker C: Yeah, we'll keep, we'll keep that schedule, you know, into the foreseeable future. I don't see it changing at all. [00:51:23] Speaker B: You think? I'm assuming you've been doing it for 10 years because you have seen a quantifiable impact in guys ability to transition. Yeah. [00:51:29] Speaker C: And I, I never take it for granted the impact that it, the players feel like it has. So, you know, I've, I've already asked four or five of them and I'll get to, you know, I'll get to all of them eventually. Hey, now that you've been through a semester, you know, how do you feel about coming back? How did you feel about being here for, for summer school? And I've asked that, you know, let's call it 10 years. Right. I've asked every single player over the course of 10 years and I have never gotten anything besides a resounding yes, the best thing I did. I didn't realize how impactful it was going to be. I think about that all the time. The learning curve, the saw, like, all of it. Like, I've just never gotten an answer of like, I've never even got it. Yeah, it was good. Glad I did it. Like, I've never even gotten that poor of an answer. It's always an emphatic yes. [00:52:17] Speaker B: I could tell you from firsthand experience with a couple of your freshmen this year that both the families and the players walked away from that experience feeling even better about their decision because they felt prepared for the fall. They felt like they learned how they needed, they learned what the expectation was in terms of how they need to operate within the program. So I can tell you from speaking to those families and those kids after they finished up their, their six week session that it was definitely something that they appreciated and they understood the value of. Yeah. [00:52:52] Speaker A: And I think illustrates the sheer amount of time that you spend doing college baseball stuff. Because it's not just the cow, it's not just playing baseball. It is going to class, it is going to study hall, it is having to get tutors, it is having to go go grocery shopping and eat and do your laundry and do all those things that you likely haven't had to do ever in your life. And I would always ask my freshman at the end of year, like, what was the biggest adjustment for you? And probably 90% of them would be like just a sure amount of time, like a double header on a Saturday, you know, we're on the field at 9, we don't get out the field till 5:36. And that's with turf and no field prep. Like, you know, and you're, when you can set that expectation early on of like, hey, you guys are going to be in here eating breakfast at seven and you're also going to be, you have an entire day of baseball stuff, being at camp and then going to class and tutoring and study hall. That sets the entire day like, hey, this, like, look at everything you can accomplish in this window of time while also setting yourself up for success the second you set foot on campus. And that's that, that's something that I think a lot of younger guys, I mean, I know I struggled with it my freshman year. Like we didn't have that in 2004 of going in early and being able. Like you had to figure it out on your own more or less. And if you didn't it was a, it was a tough shake, but you could have the shortstop just screaming, figure it out to you on the field. [00:54:27] Speaker B: And then you can tell Keith, son of a bitch. I got on Keith when we were doing double cuts and he kept calling the wrong base. And I was a junior and he was a freshman and I called him out on the field. [00:54:46] Speaker A: I didn't know what a double cut was. We never ran it before. I was yelling two. So I like to tell everybody that when you get to college and you're. If you're a catcher, no one ever calls two on a double cut. It's not a thing. We're assuming that it's a double. [00:55:00] Speaker B: My infinite wisdom and extreme leadership. Yo, will you figure it out? So, yeah, life comes at day two of practice. [00:55:09] Speaker A: I was like, I don't even know what I'm doing. Why am I here? Finally someone was like, if there's someone on first, it's a three call or a four call. If no one's on first, then it's a three calls. Like, oh, it's that simple. I got this. 50. [00:55:22] Speaker C: 50. Yeah, there we go. [00:55:24] Speaker A: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Before I don't hit the fun. Go. Where's the runner? Yeah. All right. No one's on first. Okay, here we go. [00:55:29] Speaker B: Here we go. We. I don't even know. I'm gonna ask you this about kind of your evaluation of kids. And I was specifically on the position player side, not even about the talent stuff, but are there some specific things that you look at when you're evaluating a kid besides the obvious, like bat speed and can he run? Like, are there any less tangible things that you focus in on when you're, when you're at the field evaluating the kid that you're, you're there to evaluate? Because I, I think the reason I like to ask this to guys is we're so metrics based from the websites in the 60s and the velocities and the exit velos in. It's not really the total story because as you mentioned before, and I'm taking this one to the bank is talents. That's the bare minimum. Like, that's the entry. What are some of the non talent things that you dial in on to figure out if a kid's going to be able to compete at your level? [00:56:37] Speaker C: So I think, you know, I'm very fortunate. This is my 18th year being a head coach. And as you guys know, typically, you know, by the time I go watch a player as a head coach, it's not the primary evaluation, right? It's secondary. It's tertiary. You've been there, right? An assistant has said, hey, I like this kid. Can you go double check, whatever, right? Like, it's, it's. You're basically deciding, right? So I, I focused on this the majority of my coaching career, right? This is year 24 for me. So, you know, 18 of 24, I've been in this position where, you know, I'm getting fed players. Hey, Todd, I need you to go to this field and I need you to watch this one player, right? So I, I get the advantage of basically blurring out everything else, right? Like, I try to take pretty copious notes and make sure I don't miss anything. But you are focused on one particular player or two particular players. So I try to give some, like, tangible examples, right? I'll try. I'll try to give some things that I've seen in my experience that really have stood out to me, okay? So simple things. And I. Some of these, like, are laughable, right? Like, some of these are laughable. Like, ready to hit. Like, ready on deck, ready in the hole, ready to hit. Because, like, the thing I think in my head is like, all right, this kid, right? And maybe I'm conjuring this up. This kid has walked or say it's a summer. This kid has walked around his high school and he has told all of his friends that he's placed for this travel team and he's looking forward to this tournament and this is where he's going to do it. And like, he's looked forward to this at bat and he has talked about these 10 at bats that he's going to get in this tournament for months, and he's not ready to hit. Like, what, what does that tell me, right? That's a red flag, green flag. Is he ready to hit? 4 away, 5 away. Is he still. Helmet, Evo shield, batting gloves on with two outs and nobody on, and he's four away. Like, those type of things, right? So, so take that both ways. The second thing is, what are they doing with their pre pitch communication, right? And, and, and I said this. I was actually talking to. We have a youth academy that we run here on Sunday nights. And I went to it and I. And I try to be very specific [00:58:58] Speaker B: there. [00:58:58] Speaker C: There are multiple forms of communication that can all fit within your personality skill set, right? If you are an extrovert and you're loud, you can communicate face to face and from 50, 60, 100 yards away. If you are an introvert and You're a little quieter. Maybe your communication is more shoulder to shoulder, right? You're having that internal one on one conversation, shoulder to shoulder instead of face to face. Are they communicating, right? Are they just comfortable enough with themselves to communicate with those around them? The next thing on defense is, again, I'm tying it all back into the same thing, right? Can you see the confidence and the self assuredness with the little things in between innings? How they throw the ball around, how do they catch pop ups, how do they catch the ball? Throwing down, how do they throw down, right? Like all of these things, how do they interact with. With an umpire, all of those things. The last one on offense that I really feel like spells out self assuredness and confidence is your ability to take. Just your ability to take pitches, right? So now you think about the opposite of what I said a minute ago. This kid's, you know, not ready to hit, whatever, blah, blah. Or the kid's like, overly ready to hit, right? He's dressed four away with two outs, nobody on. Is that guy confident enough to stand in that batter's box in that pressure cooker? Which, dude, it's a pressure cooker. Let's just call it what it is, right? If, if a head coach is sitting at that game, like, I assure you, I am not the only, the only coach that's at that game, okay? So, you know, it's a pressure cooker. Are you willing to sit there and just simply put together a good plate appearance, or are you so excited to hit that now you're out of your comfort zone? You're out of your zone and you're. And you're chasing everything, Are you willing to take those borderline pitches? Because if you're willing to take borderline pitches in that environment and you're willing to take your walks in that environment, specifically when it gets to 3:2, man, like, when it gets to 3:2, when I see guys have a good take in a 3:2 count and just simply trot down to first base. Like, if you could, if you could see what's going on in my head, it's. I mean, it's crazy, right? Like, but those are the types of things that I really try to focus and dial in on, right? I'll give a short story, because that's what I am. I'm a storyteller, okay? This is eight years ago. Me and JJ are riding around Atlanta together. Game ends at like 11 o'. Clock. We go eat it. Like probably a waffle house, I'm guessing. And it's like 11:30. And he looks at me and he goes, hey, you know that kid that I told you we needed to see? I go, yeah. He goes, he's playing in 30 minutes. I'm like, at midnight. And, you know, because of course it rained in Atlanta. [01:01:50] Speaker B: Whatever. [01:01:50] Speaker C: He goes, yeah. In my head, I'm like, yeah, okay. Like, we're going to the game, right? Like. Like we're going to the game. The kids from upstate New York, whatever, walk into the place 12:15 at night. First pitch is set for 12:30. And some ungodly reason, every time at 12:30 at night, a travel league umpire is still not in a hurry to come back and get the game started, right? Like, they're still taking their time. Like, we're sitting around, like, literally, what are we waiting for? It's like the umpire is coming out, right? Like, and God bless those guys for. For umpiring travel baseball. But if the pace of play at post midnight, I think could be increased. Anyway, I walk into the facility, and I could tell you immediately who the kid's dad was. And I had never met him. I had never met the kid, and I'd never met the family. And I knew immediately who his dad was. Dad is sitting in the bleachers, khaki shorts, polo shirt collared, shirt tucked in, hair combed, looking presentable. Like, he could walk in anywhere at any time. And it's 12:30 at night, and I'm thinking, okay, that's a good start. The kid is meticulous in his preparation from 12:15 to 12:30, waiting on the umpires to show he's dialed in, playing well, whatever he's hitting. Leadoff the first inning, he leads off, grounds out, hustles his ass off down the line, runs a good time down the line. I'm writing my notes. [01:03:24] Speaker A: Boom, boom. [01:03:25] Speaker C: By the time I really look up and get my eyes back on him, he is helmet away, bat away, everything away, hat on, glove on, glove in hand of the second baseman. And he is leaning up against the pole, ready to go on defense, encouraging the guy at the plate. And I'm like, that's our guy. Like, that is our guy. And he was one of those. Tie this all the way back to the beginning of conversation. He was one of those guys that had. I think he was close to, like, 20 offers. And it was quick. And it was. It was quick. And the. The way the parents present themselves and behave at tournaments matters. Like, the. And. And this is like, we know who you are. Like, when the iPhone comes out, when he walks into the batter's box. Like, we know you're not filming this for like, and that's okay. You should be doing that. But we, like, it's so now in 2024, 2025, like, it's so easy to identify the parent. So you're a representative of that family. Because we're talking about families joining families and families morals and ethics and values have to match up with our families values, morals and ethics. And so those are being evaluated too. So you can't really mistake or really underestimate, you know, the family behavior during those games as well. So I know that was a long answer to a short question, but try to, try to be as specific with examples as I could. [01:05:03] Speaker B: No, I think it's great for people to hear because I think that Keith, Keith says this really well, that this whole recruiting process, it's veiled. Right. It's part of why we do this podcast and have guys like you on is to, to shed some light on things that don't get talked about enough. It's easy to talk about the guy who throws 95 and the kid who runs a six four, but you, you miss a lot of the really important part of the recipe here, which is all of the stuff that you're talking about. You know, we always liken it to when you show up to the field as a coach, if I'm showing up to a game, the first thing I notice is who looks best in a uniform and little stuff like that. You're talking about confidence to be able to take a pitch. You're talking about paying attention to the kid, how he acts in the dugout. I always liked, specifically with pitchers, I like to get to the game way early because I wanted to see how the kid prepared. Did he have a routine? What was his. Just general body language and, you know, did he kind of have that game face on? Is he kind of goofing off in the dugout and then he grabs a ball and then just goes out and throw? Or is he out kind of preparing by himself? Is he kind of getting himself locked in just seeing how kids prepare? Because when you get to college, the preparation is where magic is made. And I think it's important that people hear exactly what you're talking about. And everybody's got a slightly different answer to that question. But I think what it reveals is that when you guys are going to make decisions on players, it's. It's not necessarily performance based. At some point it is obviously you need to be able to play well and excel in a Certain environment. But once you figure out a kid's good enough, now you're trying to get down to exactly what you're talking about. Is this the right type of kid? Does he do the things that I really value? And you clearly value attentiveness, commitment to what you're doing, being locked in on the bigger picture, family, being a part of something bigger than yourself. And like you're talking about the kid from upstate New York, love on, ready to go, cheering on his teammate like that checks all those boxes in one simple action that you took notice of. And I think I know who you're talking about. And I think he ended up having a pretty good career for you guys from that. [01:07:25] Speaker C: Rodriguez. Yeah, Rodriguez. Yeah. You ended up. Yeah, I ended up being an all conference player and ended up, you know, signing with the Mariners and you know, had a few years of a pro career and you know, he's just. Yeah, let me, let me, Andy, let me say this about, you know, we didn't get on the pitcher thing. Let me just throw one quick example of something that I look at in terms of self assuredness of pitcher. I always like to compare their average velocity overall to their average velocity in a three ball count. Right. I always want to compare their average velocity overall to their average velocity in a three ball count. And so that is like a, like you want to talk about quantifiable, like trying to quantify confidence and aggressiveness. That's, that's a way to do it. Right. Hey, this kid, you know, this kid's averaging 89, but in three ball counts he's averaging 85. Next. Right, next. This guy's averaging 89 and in three ball counts he's throwing 89. Like. Yes. So that's just, that's just one quantifiable example of something that I try to look for. [01:08:32] Speaker B: Oh, I like that. Just shows conviction, confidence, conviction, self assuredness. Yeah, yeah, we're all right. Free balls like, hey, here's my best fastball. Come get it. [01:08:45] Speaker C: Yep. [01:08:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, that's good. I got, I got a few tidbits to take out of this one ti. I appreciate this. A couple good stories to lean on here. I like it. Let me ask you the last question, and I think we've probably covered a bunch of this, so I don't. You take this as long as you want, but what are a couple pieces of advice you give to families and to, to players who are currently in the process right now or who will be going through this process in the future? [01:09:17] Speaker C: I am glad you Asked. Okay, so one of the most popular questions that I get is what's, how do we market ourselves? Right? How do we, you know, what's the best way to communicate with coaches? What's the best way, you know, what's the best way to go about this? Right? And my answer is this. Focus on the product, not on the marketing, right? Focus on selling the product. Focus on the product that you're selling, not how to sell the current product, right? As a, as a young player, you are an entrepreneur. You are starting your own business, right? You are, you are the business of selling yourself. That, that is what it is. Okay, so this is an example I've used in the past before. Okay? Let, let's think about an individual non chain retail shop in a strip mall. Okay? Let's just picture that. Whether it's a, you know, travel luggage store or a clothing store with a retail shop in a strip mall, okay? You can send me all the mail, all the email, all the discounts, everything you want, and you can get me to know the name of your particular retail shop in this strip mall. But when I show up at the strip mall, what it looks like and the product inside of it is going to trump anything that you've ever sent me. Is the sign right out front? Are all the lights lit? Is it organized inside? Is it clean? Are there friendly service people? Is it a price that I feel like is fair? Do I feel like the quality of the product? Do I think it's, do I think all of this is up to snuff? Because no matter how many emails you send me or no matter how many Discounts I got, 99 of this evaluation is going to walk, is going to happen as soon as I walk into that store. So there was a study a long time ago that talked about, and I got this from Jerry Richardson, who late Jerry Richardson, who was the former owner of the Carolina Panthers. Jerry Richardson started Spartan foods, Hardee's, Carl's Jr. So on and so forth, fast food restaurants, okay? Spartan Foods is what he started. That's how he's made his money. Eventually bought, bought and started the Carolina Panthers. Well, they did their training camp at Wofford. So Mr. Richardson was always around. He was always around campus. And I was so fortunate that I got to interact with him pretty intimately, maybe three to five times, like to say, have a meal with him. And I could tell you stories about him that would just go on for hours that are really interesting. But he started talking about the number one correlating factor to having a Successful fast food chain restaurant. It wasn't drink, it wasn't food. It was. It was cleanliness of the restaurant. That was the number one correlating factor to running a successful fast food chain. Think about Chick Fil A, right? Think about how clean and pristine every Chick Fil A you've ever walked in. They sell one freaking sandwich. They sell one sandwich, right? And they're killing it because of customer service and because of organization and cleanliness. Okay? So now as a player, right, As a player, okay, so what does that mean for me, selling my own business as a player? That means work on the product, right? So to me, especially this time of year, right, like, go into psycho serial killer mode in terms of your work ethic. Like, be a different. Be legitimately a different player when you walk back out on March 1, right? Don't worry about the language in your email. Don't worry about AI trying to write an email. Or you have, like, fix the product. Improve the product. No matter where you are, improve the product. And so for me, I would just, I would just suggest to families, any minute you're gonna spend extra on your marketing strategy. Spend that in the gym. Spend it doing mobility, spend it doing flexibility. Spending in the ca. Like, spend that time working on the product instead of the marketing. [01:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good. The Chick Fil A analogy is legit. The service is so good there. [01:13:41] Speaker C: Like, I mean, it's to the point now where, like, you don't even care how long the line is in the drive through. [01:13:46] Speaker B: Doesn't matter. Non factor. [01:13:49] Speaker C: If you, if you roll into a Burger King and it's a wraparound, you're leaving. You roll up to a Chick Fil A and it's a wraparound. You're like, I got this. Yeah, I really want that one sandwich they sell. [01:14:01] Speaker B: It is true. It is so true. And I think one of the things that me and Keith say is you need to be recruitable before you get recruited. And for most kids, it's exactly what you're saying, that you need to focus on becoming the best player you can be. And then you can put together a strategy. Because if you're recruitable now, we can get down to targeting schools and we can get down to those emails and stuff. But we got to get there first. We got to get there. You got to be undeniable as a college player, whether it's in the accident or you're going to go play for Joe at Rochester. Like, you need to be a recruitable player. And the funny thing is, is that the gap now. And we talked about this, like, the competition level is so high and there's so many talented kids that if you're, if you're worried about how many emails did I get out? And you sacrificed a gym session to do so. You. It's kind of cart before the horse here. Like, we got to get some stuff done. And, you know, we are in that period in December here where you guys can't leave campus. You won't be leaving campus for a while. You guys are focused on your players and getting ready for your season. And this is the time when high school guys, you have to put the time in. In the weight room. You have to put the time in. In the batting cage, and you need to come out in the spring and just be so good that nobody can deny you it. And the rest will take care of itself. Yes, you need to have a plan. You need to have somebody that can give you good information on where you fit. But to your point, none of that really matters if you don't. If you can't put forward a product that somebody's willing to buy because it's a really good product. [01:15:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:46] Speaker C: You're just creating a house of cards, right? You're just. You're just creating a house of cards. [01:15:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, man. Well, for the listeners, you got a lot to unpack on this one, TI I. I mean, shoot, man. Really appreciate your time. I know you're a busy man and really appreciate you taking the time to come on and chop it up with us and just enjoy the conversation. [01:16:14] Speaker C: Absolutely, man. I, I couldn't, could not turn down an opportunity to have an hour BS session with YouTube, man. It'd been way too long. And your beards are way too well groomed. In order for me to pass, we [01:16:26] Speaker B: had to tighten them up with you coming on. We didn't go full. We didn't go full blade, but that's all good, man. [01:16:31] Speaker C: Be yourself, dude. Be self assured. Be yourself. [01:16:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:36] Speaker B: Well, TI I appreciate it, man, and I'm gonna try to come see you guys when you're in the Richmond area again this year. [01:16:44] Speaker C: So, yeah, we'll be down. We'll be down this year to try to pop in. [01:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah. All right, well, thank you again. Thank you, everybody for listening. We'll tune in, tune in next week for some, some more good information. Thanks, everybody. [01:16:57] Speaker C: Thanks, guys. [01:16:59] Speaker B: Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and smash that, like, button for us. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Google podcasts, as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram. MD Baseball if you want to find out what me and Keith do to help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check. Check us out on emdbaseball.com take a few minutes to check out our new online academy. I promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening. Check in with you next week.