Episode 155: Interview with Monroe Community College Head Coach Dave Brust

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Cali Gloves K a l I gloves.com [00:01:10] Speaker B: welcome to this week's edition of the Dugout Dish podcast. I'm Andy Kiri Kitties, joined by my Wonderful Co host, Mr. Keith Glaser. How we doing? Great. [00:01:18] Speaker A: How are you? [00:01:19] Speaker B: Good. Got another guest on someone who's right down the road from you up in Rochester. But I'll, I'll kick it over to you for the the intro here. [00:01:27] Speaker A: Sure. Tonight we're joined and we're excited to have coach Dave Brust, who's the head baseball coach at Monroe College. He is one of the best, in my personal opinion, junior college coaches in the country. He's entering his 13th season for the Tribunes. They've gone to multiple, they've won multiple regional three titles. Excuse me. And they've made at least three Division 2 World Series appearances under him. So tonight we are super excited to be joined by and coach. You are the first junior college coach that we've had on the podcast. We sit here and talk big game about how good we think junior college baseball is. We've yet to have someone on. So we're super excited to have you join us tonight and talk some juco baseball. So welcome. [00:02:12] Speaker C: Thanks for having me, guys. Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate that. And you know, it's certainly an honor to, you know, to coach at any level, but certainly going back to a place that I played and has an incredible history. So, you know, I just kind of carry the torch. You know, the groundwork was, was there from Dave Chamberlain who's, you know, ABCA hall of Famer and Skip and who's an NJCAA hall of Famer. So I've Been very blessed with having guys kind of pull me back and I think, you know, this kind of, you know, takes me into, you know, you know, kind of how I got there, I guess. Right? That's. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:59] Speaker C: I mean, I got out of pro baseball. I mean, I was not really, you know, I mean, I think when a lot of guys end their playing career, you know, some want to get right into coaching and some want to get as far away from it as possible. I kind of went through both experiences, you know, so I had, I had a, you know, I was a good high school player. I played at the now defunct Cardinal Mooney High School, but I played for a Hall of Fame coach. Ed Natobsky was very blessed and you know, who was a St. Louis cardinal back in the 50s and, you know, that type of thing. So he, he brought a lot of good fundamental baseball to young high school players and so, so very blessed to be around him and what he stood for. And then strangely, you know, the 80s, right. I mean it was, it's a whole different world than the recruiting world now. Somehow I got seen playing. I was a 5 foot 11, 160 pound shortstop and I wasn't, I didn't think I was a very good defender, but I could swing the bat and somebody saw me play and I ended up at the University of Maryland and, you know, certainly exciting. You're in the ACC and you're in our world when you're from Rochester. Maryland is, is south. It's, it's south enough. So that was kind of like, right, we want to go south. You know, playing in the acc. This is a big deal. And it was a big deal. It was an incredibly hard experience. We had a, just a tough, tough year in the acc, but it was culture shock, man. It was section five Rochester, New York down to the acc, which I don't think a lot of young players are ready to be playing in the ACC when they're 18 years old. And I was kind of thrown out there and was not emotionally, psychologically, even physically ready for that, but great experience. But I opted to leave. So obviously, what, 40 years before the portal. But I portaled out to Monroe Community College, which kind of is how I landed. You know what I mean? It's like I just, I'm not sure what I'm doing. I left Maryland, left scholarship money on the table, but it just was not a good fit. The program really wasn't developing players, and thank God I landed at Monroe Community College. Dave Chamberlain, Skip Bailey, Pete Dawes, and that was the that was a true experience of high developed guys. This, you know, everybody has their own, their own, you know, plan and any. And everybody got attention and work and granted there was a lot of structure and an incredible amount of, you know, expectation with conditioning and winning. But it was, it was an exceptional experience and that got me off the ball State and I actually turned into a catcher in like three months and caught at the division one level and played at ball State and got. Was signed by the Braves and played in the Braves organization. And so when I got out of professional baseball, like many guys do they kick around in minors or two. Brandon. It was an incredible experience. I would never trade it in. It's. It's kind of like a. Another master's degree, but in baseball, but really in life. So that was. It's hard. 142 games after six weeks of spring training and I was going down as a catcher. So, you know, it's a long. It's a lifestyle. It's not a season. It's a lifestyle. And was very blessed with being around some special people, special coaches. Grady Little, Philip Wellman, Willie Stargell, Frank Howard, Phil Negro or Bruce Benedict. Right. I mean, blessed with so many incredible guys who impacted me. Luke Appling, I mean, these are guys you probably like. Who is that guy? You know, these are all but incredible instructors, you know. But when I got out of pro baseball, I was like, oh, so kind of brokenhearted, kind of bitter, you know, kicked around for a while and then I became a schoolteacher. I taught math and English in Spencerport Central Schools for 14 years. So I was becoming a better teacher and thank God. And it gave. Kind of put baseball a little bit on the back burner. And then, and then it was Pete Dawes who was a longtime coach at Monroe Community College. He kind of enticed me back. And then Mike Kelly, who was the head coach before I got to Monroe, they're like, hey, you want to come out? You know, be a volunteer? And you know, I'm like, yeah. So this would have been like January of 2005, I think. Yeah, yep, 2005. And next thing you know, I'm like, man, I kind of like this. You know, I kind of like this. This isn't bad. So it was a little different leaving sixth graders going to 18, 19 year olds. But I really, I was more just taking it in. I wasn't saying much, just kind of taking it all in. And then I started coaching in the nycbl. You might remember the NYC Blind of on its deathbed a little bit right now, but nonetheless, the. The pre perfect game and it's very competitive. And then I just. Next thing you know, I'm coaching there and. Right. And then one thing leads to next. Next thing you know, I'm the GM and head coach with the Webster Yankees. And then the hook was set. I'm like, I'm. I'm loving this. [00:08:11] Speaker B: I'm out. [00:08:11] Speaker C: I mean, I finished up my 14th year. Mike Kelly decided to move on to California, got a job out there. And the AD at the time, who was, you know, one of my was. I coached under him with Skip Bailey, and he basically worked his magic. And I was the fourth head coach in the history of the program in August of 2013. And man, what it has been a very, very blessed. And it worked out so. All the dues, right? You hear this from young coaches. All the dues. I paid them all too. And I had a day job, so it took the pressure off. But I'm glad I paid him. I'm glad I was a volunteer. I'm glad I just kept showing up at the park and kind of getting a better and better feel for college baseball. But I became my 14 years as a school teacher, really, I thought made me a better teacher. Right. I mean, that's what. We're not just teaching baseball. We're teaching life skills. We're getting kids to show up every day and hang in there and go to class and. And until they find their niche. And so. So that's kind of what happened. I'm very blessed. And again, 13 years has zipped on by, and I'm more excited than ever. I really am. I mean, it's. There's, there's hard times and there's, you know, there's, there's moments. We had a couple rough seasons in there. I can honestly say they force you to look in the mirror and like, okay, we got to get better, we got to recruit better, we got to do things differently. And it's. It's been a. It's been a great ride and hopefully there's, you know, a lot more to come. [00:09:49] Speaker A: It's great. I hear Andy. I think it's so interesting to hear, like, I hear Coach Rossi coming out of your mouth when you used, like. Because he taught for 39 years in the Gilderland school district, but working under hit, it's the same thing. Like, and Carl was the same way when I worked for him. Like, you're not just coaching, you're a teacher as well. And I think from. And we do have a lot of coaches who listen to this podcast. I think there's a lot of truth to it. And I was blessed to come up with guys in this game that, you know, for lack of a better term, were dinosaurs. Like, they had been around this, like, they'd coached for so long, and it was such a. A theme and everything it was that they did. Like, it's not just coaching there. There's way more to this than just coaching baseball. And I think with, like, you can start making jumps as a younger coach when you realize that it's not just the, you know, what your swing path looks like or what your prep step looks like when you're going to a ground. Like, there's way more that goes into this than just the. The baseball aspect of it. And I think that you can, from a coaching standpoint, you become a better coach, at least in my personal opinion, when you start to realize that it's. It's bigger than just the game and there's a lot more things that are at play. And, you know, you start worrying about kids going to class, and it's not because, you know, you're worried about their grades or staying eligible. I guess in some instances you might be, but it's more like, hey, when you leave here, you can't just, no, show your job and think that you're going to be okay. You know, it's teaching life skills, it's teaching accountability. It's teaching showing up for yourself and your teammates and, you know, doing things when things get hard. Like, what are you going to do? Just fold when life gets tough? Like, that's not going to. That doesn't go well for anyone. But it's. It's. I always think, I hear it all the time with, with. And I'm not saying you're old coach, because you're not, but I hear it with guys who have been around for a very long time. Like, you hear, like, the, the common themes of, like, this is teaching. It's co. It's coaching and teaching. It's not just coaching. And I think that for the younger coaches and people, and even if you're going through the process, like, you want a coach that, you know, kind of echoes that sentiment when you go on visits in places you want to, like, you're looking at, like, hey, what am I going to get out of this? Is this just baseball? Or am I going to be a better human being when I walk out of the door here in two years or four years or 15 years, if we have another pandemic, you know, I just. I think that that's important to at least keep in the back of your mind as a kid and a parent of, you know, this is a guy that I want my kid to go play for because he'll be better for it when he leaves here at the end of the. His duration at that school. [00:12:25] Speaker C: Yeah, no question. I, you know, and when. When I got out of professional baseball and I'm kind of go. I remember I sent all these letters out, right? Letters. Right. I am getting old. So I sent out all these letters to. To try to get a grad job. Well, I got to stay in baseball. This was like. This was my immediate panic mode. You know, when you get your letter that you're. You're released from your contract, right. So you shed some tears, and you're like, okay, what next? Oh, coaching. And I. And I sent out all these letters and I got some pretty positive feedback, and they were interested, and then I actually turned them down. I'm like, you know, I'm like, man, I'm not ready for this. And I am very thankful that I did, because I was not ready. I would have been, you know, I would have, you know, that kind of that old cliche of, well, I just would have been teaching how I was taught. And I think that's something that I always talk to my young assistants about. I was like, guys, you gotta be very careful of that. There's. There's reasons. Maybe coaches did things the way they did them, and that's not saying they're wrong, but you have to evolve with the players and the game, and it's okay to challenge the way we do things. You know, there might be. Might be time for a change. And there's no way I would have been a. In a leadership role when I was 25, 26 years old and just getting out of professional baseball. I would have been not good. I'm grateful I stayed away from it for a while. And I know that's not everybody's path, but that path was good for me because right at the end of the day, and I, Dave Chamberlain would always say, we want. Our guys are going to come in as boys and leave as men. And that still matters. That's still important. And it's our job to have structure and have accountability and have good relationships with their players, but have a very thick line of player coach. And I think young coaches sometimes might struggle with that. So not that that's a problem with young coaches, but again, it's still. It's a challenge for them. And I certainly was not ready, and I'm glad I waited. And so, ultimately, to be better at carrying on, getting these guys to good, responsible young men and moving on, that's what we want. [00:14:46] Speaker B: I think that's the part that I miss the most. The games, obviously, are great. You get to put on the uniform, and you get to go out there and watch your guys compete and try to put them in a good situation to win. The practices are awesome. You know, you get to get to go out and challenge guys. We always used to kind of think of it as, like, games are for the players, practices are for the coaches. [00:15:07] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:15:09] Speaker B: But it was the relationships that you build and being able to watch guys figure it out, and hopefully you played a role in that. You know, the freshman who comes in and, you know, is a little bit overwhelmed by what's going on and figuring out how to communicate with them, figuring out how to challenge them appropriately. And then the back end of it, watching them graduate, watching them move on to pro ball, whatever it might be. And then, you know, looking up 10 years from now and seeing somebody who's a great father and a really good husband, and that's the stuff that, looking back on it now, having been out of it for a little while, that I probably miss more. Like, most people would think, well, you just, you know, don't you just miss, you know, competing and being in the games? Like, yeah, of course. Like, it's been ingrained in me since I was a little kid. But I think the impact that you have when you. When you get a little bit older and you've done it for a little while, I think you realize that that's really kind of the purpose of it all. Like, yeah, you're trying to get guys better at baseball, but the foundation for all of that is the communication. It's holding them to a high standard. Watching kids figure it out, helping them figure it out. I just. That thing. That's what I always come back to, what I miss. When people ask me that. I think my answer is different now than it would have been, you know, if I had gotten out of coaching when I was 25 or 26. I think my answer would have been very, very different. [00:16:34] Speaker C: And. And I. I like when you say, figure it out. So that's kind of been a. That's evolved into an acronym that we. We have on all of our practice shirts. We have FIO on all of our shirts. And we so often will say to a player, listen, go figure it out. Right? You know, coach, can I coach? You know, like all those little things are like, well, I can tell you, I can show you. And I think the best way for me to help you is that you need to go figure it out. But they need to hear that. And I think, and I think today's young players, more than ever, you know, there might be some degree of, you know, hand holding a little bit more so than maybe my generation growing up, you know, I mean, and, and that's just, that's just the way of the world. But there's a price to be paid for that. So we are more and more trying to encourage our guys to do more things independently, teaching them how to advocate for themselves better, but getting them ultimately to figure it out. And that even could certainly be on the baseball field. It's like, hey, listen, these are the things that we want to do, okay? These are the things that I'm seeing from you, but you need to figure it out, look around and figure it out and get them to kind of ultimately reflect and make changes. And I. So it is kind of nice. It's refreshing hearing that I'm not the only one who says figure it out. [00:17:57] Speaker B: And for some guys, it takes them failing to a point where they have no other choice. And for some guys it's just the quick realization of, oh, if I want to be good, I got to do some stuff different. They see another guy on the roster who is, you know, the guy is going to go play pro ball, or in your case, maybe it's pro ball, maybe it's that kid's going to go and get a Division 1 scholarship and he does things different than me. There's a different intensity at which he practices. There's a different posture and just kind of energy when he shows up to the field every day. And he's in the weight room five days a week and he's also going to class. And you know, sometimes guys figure that out really quickly and they go, oh, okay, if I want to keep up, I better start doing some of this stuff. And they latch on to somebody that does it right. And that's one of the things that we try to tell our guys when they end up moving on to go and play in college is, hey, when you get there, go latch. If you're a right handed pitcher, go latch onto the best right hand pitcher on the staff and just do what he does. Because he's probably good for a reason and it's probably not just because he throws the ball hard or he's got a really good breaking ball. He's probably really good at preparation. He probably really good at taking care of his body. He probably does the little things right. He's always on time for practice. He's wearing the right, the right uniform. He's, you know, and you start to figure that out. And then there's other guys who they have to, for lack of a better term, kind of hit rock bottom and go, okay, this isn't working, tell me what I need to do. Both of those paths are great as long as you get the end result of a kid going, okay, now I know what I need to do. And they start to start to put the action behind it. [00:19:37] Speaker C: Yeah, no, definitely, we, we have all the above. And I think that as we go through our mid year meetings and have certainly regular conversations throughout the year when needed and I think that's kind of one of the things I do enjoy about our staff is it's pretty small. It's myself and two assistants and I think the players will support that. We just have ongoing conversations all the time and it could be about a lot of times it isn't about baseball, it's about a lot of stuff or just, just. And I know that's a, that's a goal of mine this year is to just have more, more positive interactions or more neutral interactions and try to minimize the negative interactions with guys. It doesn't mean just giving them crap about something. It's, you know, more, more stuff than in asking about whether it's, even if it's just class, you know, like how's things going? You're getting around okay, figuring things out and kind of just start, you know, that ongoing conversation. But, but ultimately some of them do they need to bottom out and you see it coming. I had a couple at the mid year, you saw it coming and you know they're better for it, right? And I think that they know they can, we'll help them. But ultimately they have to figure it out. [00:20:56] Speaker A: If you are the parent of a high school baseball player with college aspirations, you already know the recruiting process can feel overwhelming. Endless showcases, non stop emails and big promises with very little clarity. That's why we recommend Diamond College Showcase Camps, the nation's premier academic baseball showcase. At Diamond College Showcases, every college coach in attendance is there with a purpose to coach, instruct, evaluate and recruit. Every player is seen, every player is engaged, and every family leaves with a clear understanding of where they truly stand. This is not a matter of mass camp. College coaches run the drills, evaluate every athlete and provide honest professional feedback that you can trust. Diamond College Showcase Camps are built for serious student athletes who value both baseball and academics. If you're looking for transparency, clarity and a recruiting experience that respects your time and your players future, Diamond College Showcase is the place to be. To learn more, visit Diamond College show showcase.com [00:21:58] Speaker B: the the kids who go through that and they bounce back from it, the long term impact of that goes so far beyond just the baseball. Right. We always used to talk, we talk about this on the podcast, but the, the first six months for a kid, whether they're going to junior college, Division 3 or they're going to play in the ACC, that first six months, there is going to be a moment where they really doubt, am I good enough? They're going to have a really bad day on the field or they're going to oversleep a practice. They're going to do something and it's going to have an impact. And the kids who can own their mistakes, own the moment and be accountable for their actions and move forward. And you know, whether it's proactive to, to go and start doing more work on the field, whether it's making sure you're setting an alarm so you're getting a class like little things, the kids who bounce back from it, they're so much better in the long run because they learn from that failure and they have an opportunity to build on that and it's something that becomes ingrained in them. That long term just has huge impacts, I think. Yeah. [00:23:09] Speaker C: And you know, one of the beauties of, of certainly juco baseball is, you know, it, it isn't and I am very happy about this. I don't have the pressure of what NCAA coaches have to go through. And I would say all three levels of NCAA coaches at some point in time, right. They, they, they have to win and, and you know, just, just to kind of continue positively recruiting. I think at the junior college world they, you know, I mean, yeah, you want to be successful but like I don't, I don't feel the pressure that I have to go to a college World Series year. I don't even look at it that way. Those things don't even come to mind. And so, so ultimately guys can come into the program and we have some, we have some fluff space for guys to fail. You know, especially with our fall being what it is. You know, that's a great time for our instruction and getting guys to change and you know. Right. With very different rules in ncaa. So, so it's a great place to come on in and grow. But that growth means Right. And it's kind of a tough thing to talk about with parents and. And recruits, but it's a good place to come in and fail and go bad and start to realize, oh, they're actually pretty good. But the other piece that goes with that is it get. And I think it's more of a challenge than ever is getting young players to trust the instruction. We have a lot of conversations about trust the instruction, guys. That learning curve is only going to get steeper and steeper when you resist the instruction. And whether it's not trusting our information or it's just that they're out of their comfort zone, one of the two. So a challenge, but ultimately it happens. And it's usually when they hit rock bottom and then they're like, oh, yeah, now I know what you're talking about, Coach. Oh, yeah. Okay, well, let's get busy. [00:25:04] Speaker A: I think it's so interesting, like, there's. Especially in today's game where you're getting kids and this is at all levels, this isn't just specific to junior college, where all these kids have had hitting coaches, infield coaches, pitching coaches their entire lives, and then they show up. And as college coaches, we're going to challenge you to get better because your current state is probably not good enough to get college hitters out to be successful against good college pitching. And there's seemingly. There's going to be people who rebel against that. And it's like, well, my pitching coach or my hitting coach, it's like, you mean he doesn't work here, he doesn't coach in college? And it's. There's a place for it in this game. But I feel like there's. There's been like this monster leap where you have kids who want to go back to their hitting coaches and change things and do things. [00:26:00] Speaker B: Will. [00:26:01] Speaker A: The people who are ultimately in charge of putting you in the lineup are telling you what it is that you need to do if you're going to fight it. The likelihood of you being in the lineup or even on the team at the end of the year is pretty. Is pretty slim. And I feel like it's happened more and more over the last couple years. And I caution people against it just because, like, you know, I've heard. I've had parents tell me, like, wow, we don't know about that school because we've heard from, you know, we've heard some things and inevitably you do some digging and there's someone on the team who, you know, they know and. But you're hearing One side of the story, you're not hearing the other side of like, yeah, they refuse to make adjustments. They didn't have a hit the entire fall, so how can I put them on the field? And then you're hearing like, oh, they don't know what they're doing. They, they, they don't like him. They only play older kids. Like, or maybe you just, you finally faced adversity for the first time in your life and you folded instead of hey, what do I have to do in order to get better, to get on the field and trust the coaching and do the things they're asking you to do so that you can start to make jumps to be a college baseball player? There's not a lot of, to your point earlier, but there's not a lot of 18 year olds that can handle the ACC. There's not a lot of 18 year olds that can handle college baseball right away. Like are there some out there? Absolutely there are. But by and large there's not a lot of kids walking straight out of high school that are legitimately ready to go play college baseball and have a lot of success. They're going to be out there. Yes. Like some people are going to fact check and be like that's not true. Like yes, there are freshmen who out there and are really good but the overwhelming majority aren't ready. And it could be a, a number of things. It could be your swing, it could be your pitch, it could be your pitch mix. It could be you're a two pitch guy and you know, you can only throw one time through the order because you're figured out after that. You know, it could be the mental aspect of it, it could be emotional, it could be the physical. Right. Like you could be a little undersized and you can't take it. But you know, you have some tools that are going to play up as, as you get more physical and you know, but there's a, a whole plethora of things. You know, I just think that it's, you know, to your guys point like the hitting rock bottom and trusting the coaching and doing those things. Like you have to understand when you go to a program you're going to be coached by the coaches that are there. So like it's weird to me that you know, you see that people want to rebel against it and go elsewhere. It's like, well then why did you go there in the first place? If, if you don't think that they're good enough to coach you to get better, then why are you There, like, stop paying money to the guy who doesn't even coach you anymore. He's not writing the lineup. He's not going to get you in there. Like, that's, it's, it's, it's wild to me, but like, it. My point in all of this is, like, when you go to the place, trust the coaching that you're getting, because by and large, you're, you're getting good coaching. They know what the, they know what the level is. They know what it takes to succeed there. You're going to have to do a little bit more than what you're. You're currently doing. Right. Andy says this all the time. Like, high school guys. Right now, for the most part, you're probably doing less than the bare minimum that's going to be asked of you when you get to college. And that's. I think that's hard for some people to wrap their head around. Like, less than bare minimum. I hit four times a week. Like, yeah, man, you're going to be hitting six times a week, probably seven. You're going to be in the weight room four to five times a week. You're going to be conditioning. You're going to be practicing. Like, the hitting is not just hitting in the cage. Like, you're going to be practicing six days a week. It's a lot. And if you're not ready for it, you're going to get, you're going to figure it out real quick. Like, oh, okay, this is what they were talking about. This is a little bit more than I kind of anticipated this to be. [00:29:40] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I mean, as, as I work with the hitters and that's, that's kind of my, I think one of my areas that I enjoy most. So we have a lot of process like, like all coaches, you know, and, and oftentimes in September and October and you could see you're talking, you're talking to the group and they're kind of staring at you. And I'm like, guys, you gotta understand something. Okay? And no, and no disrespect to those who are in the business, working hard and working in, say, the industry with just hitters or pitchers and, but ultimately, guys, guys, at the end of the day, the wins and losses will go next to my name. So do you think I'm going to give you instruction so I can lose? Right. We, we want to teach you how to play so that you win games. I mean, right. They are keeping score and, and we want to do things on the offensive side and on the defensive side and the pitching side so that we win. So that's the instruction is about at the end of the day, winning games, you know, and there are, there are plenty of pitching and hitting guys that, that have really never experienced, you know, like that. You know, you got to get your guys to play, you got to get them to win. And, and they don't. So their, their perspective is so different than ours. And, and I mean that's just, I think that's just a fact. And I think what I express that to players, it, you know, they're kind of still looking at me like, yeah, but I'm like, guys, you can understand something. You know, you're writing them checks and quite frankly, as a scholarship program, we're writing checks to you. So we're giving you instruction so that we can be better and you can be productive and win baseball games. And guess what? That's what college coaches want. Can you help them win? [00:31:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, I think it's, it's an age old, I don't want to say it's an age old issue. I feel like it's a newer one, but at the same time, like there is a place for it. I certainly believe that. And like people work really hard at it and there's, there's a lot of people out there that are really good at it. Yeah, but there's, there is a distinct difference, at least in my mind from a coaching standpoint of like I've recruited these guys and I have to figure out a way to get all of like these 15 arms to somehow work as a staff so that we can win games and these 16 hitters, to be able to defend, to be able to make plays, to be able to score runs, to be able to run the basis, to be able to do all these things so that we can be successful and win baseball games. It's not just sharpening a skill that you have that may or may not pay off at some point in time, but like these are the things that you have to do in order to be successful. Andy hits it on the head all the time. When you talk about a college offense, like you're, you're a function of an offense. Like you're, there's a role that you are going to play within the offense where, when you get to college, most guys who play who are playing in college were probably hit top end of the lineup when on their high school team. And you get to college like you were a four hole guy, like you might be the eight hole guy. Your role in that offense is wildly different as the eight hole guy versus the four hole guy. We're not paying you to drive in runs and try to hit doubles. I'm paying you to get on base and move some base runners around so that it sets the table for when we flip the lineup over the other guys to come in here and knock those guys in. And it's, you know, it's a mindset change. It's. It's a whole. There's a lot more that goes into it than just like, okay, where's our swing path and where are we catching this ball? And yeah, we caught a barrel. And that's great. You know, your exit velo is amazing. Awesome. But if you can't do it in the game, it's all for not, you know, but I. So I think that it's, you know, it's such a different. What's the word I'm looking for, Andrew? Help me here. [00:33:29] Speaker B: There's like the skill portion of it. Right. There's the instruction of a swing and trying to help a guy get better functionally. Right. [00:33:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:37] Speaker B: You know, but when you get to college, you're coaching an offense and you have to know how to play offense. It's not just running out the nine best hitters. [00:33:49] Speaker A: Sure. [00:33:50] Speaker B: Like, because you're also taking into account, well, I need a shortstop who can really play defense. So that guy might, he might not need to be a really good hitter. He might need to be somebody who does certain things that I really value. Can he run? Can he bond to get the ball and play a bunch? And I think that that's the biggest transition for high school kids is that when you're in high school, it's just you put your best line, best headers 1 through 5, and hopefully your best couple hitters get a bunch of hits and you end up winning some games. And you don't have the same mentality that you do at the college level. When you're talking about grinding out at bats, when you're talking about getting into a bullpen and how does that impact a weekend? You know, being able to get to middle relief on a Friday might win you a Sunday. And those things I think are lost to. Lost on. Can be lost on some coaches who are very niche in what they do, like a hitting, a sweat, I call them. They're swing coaches in my mind. I, I consider myself an offensive coach, a hitting coach. But when I was in college, I wasn't doing a ton of swing overhauls. Right. We made adjustments with guys we tried to make sure they were in really good positions to hit and like, there's a component of that. But my job was to make sure that our guys were ready. When they stepped into batter's box, did they understand what pitch mixes they were facing? Do they understand it situationally? Do they have an approach like, you know, are we making those kind of adjustments? Are we setting themselves up to play offense? And I think that's a, I think there's a pretty, in my mind, there's a pretty clear line when it comes to that. And I think there's a place for the, the swing coaches because I do think if you have a really efficient swing and it's really good, it, it's going to give you a chance to be a better hitter. But there's the, the play offense and win games side of things, which comes with base running, which comes with, you know, dirt ball reads, it's first to thirds. It's. There's just so much more. When you get to college that becomes very, very impactful. You can't just, you know, rarely you're just going to out slug guys. Especially when you start getting in like conference play and you know, some of those early weekends when you got some northeast teams going down to play like Texas A and M or something like, yeah, it might just be their, their guys are better than your guys, but when you get in conference, the margins are so. They're so thin and it's, it comes down to being able to play offense, not necessarily just hit. [00:36:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree. And I think it's funny because that was. As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking of, you know, some of the stuff, you know, we're doing a lot of conditioning right now. I mean, today was practice five and as we break off and I'm working with the hitters and just a lot of T work, but we go through a very structured dry swing progression. And then I'll bring everybody back together and just as I'm watching their T swings and I'm like, guys, we want to make this a daily goal. And this isn't new because they've been hearing us in September, but every day that we need to find rhythm, fluidity and balance. I mean, they probably get tired of hearing me say it. Rhythm, fluidity, balance. And they're like, well, you know, I'm like, well, you, you certainly can't be a wax statue, okay? So we, we need that rhythm and that fluidity and that rhythm is going to be part of your timer, which is in my Opinion, a big. Your hand timer, your hand load is so crucial. We talk about boxers and MMA fighters, they have hand load, they have fluidity and the balance piece where, you know, like, when you, when you take a swing, I want to see one second hold. I want to see that you can have balance, because if you don't have balance at the finish, you didn't have balance at the start. And so ultimately, guys, that rhythm, fluidity and balance, what that is, that's barrel accuracy. Because if we don't have those three, that you're just going to get in the box regardless of all the other things, you're going to just help pitchers and you're going to get out. Right? So as we're grinding through dry swings and as we're grinding through T swings and we're embarking upon, you know, breaking out all the machines and going live, we need to be perfect with this. The ball's on a tee. You know what I mean? And that's. And so, so that's like one. But, but as I'm, as I'm listening to this, I'm like, yeah, we're doing that and we have to do that, but that's like 100th of our offense. And then we go into base running. And like today's big, you know, again, we. We spend a lot of time with just two outlets from second base. But again, it's the layers and layers and layers of our offense. And, and, you know, and it's all good fundamental stuff, but, man, it is, right? So the hitting piece, it's just a fraction of what really has to happen to score runs. Right. [00:38:32] Speaker B: I mean, you talk about the two I lead from second base, it doesn't mean anything until it means something. You get into the bottom of the eighth and you got a guy on second base and a guy hits that, you know, hard line drive through the five hole. If his secondary is really good, he can score. [00:38:51] Speaker C: Yep. [00:38:51] Speaker B: If he has a, if he has a bad rep on that particular pitch, it could be the difference between out and safe. Same thing at first base with good secondaries. And can you go first to third? Can you get to third with one out? Could be the difference. Well, a ground ball score, a run versus having, and those things, they. They ultimately show up over the course of a season. And when you are starting to play competition that is comparable to your talent level in your dugout, the margins are thin. And that dirt ball read getting the ball and play with two strikes to extend an inning because you, you know, you hit a hard Ground ball, the shortstop and he pulls a guy off the bag. You end up getting into first base. That extends an inning. Like it doesn't seem like much in the moment, but when you zoom out and you're able to look at it across the course of a season, you start to be able to pinpoint like, oh, this is why this stuff matters. Because so many times it doesn't. But then when it does, it shows up and it is so glaringly obvious. They're like all those reps we had on taking two out leads at second base. Well, that one is, that one is two series this year because our guys are really good at it. [00:40:08] Speaker C: Absolutely. I mean we were, you know, I think the guys, you know, we're taking our, you know, for us, you know, our two art lead will be like a, you know, let's kind of face off on the second baseman, see where he's at. Check the outfield. They're probably deep with two hours, but let's drop. I like to have our guys drop back and deep. So if a shortstop wants to check him, he's way out of position. But then, but then you're deep so that you can cut third base without making a question mark in a sense, you know what I mean? Kind of avoiding that, that waste of, of movement and being very efficient and getting, you know, again we, we rep it out a ton. But you know, and I think some, an 18 year old out of high school probably, they probably scored a ton from second base and never was challenged. But I'm like, well guys at the college level, trust me, the, everything's faster, the arms are better, the ball is going to get there, the catcher is going to hold on to it and he's going to tag you and you're going to be called out and it, right, it might not matter, but more times than not it will. And that inefficient use of your, of your secondary and that and that bad geometry, you know, could make a difference. So you know, I mean, and again to your point earlier we, this is just one fraction of our offense and but you got to rep it out and you got to explain it and expect that it gets done and it almost really won't matter till it doesn't get done. Somebody inevitably will have to get thrown out and it was probably a bad read and a bad line. Right. [00:41:38] Speaker B: I think what we're talking about, I think this is, this is college baseball. Like this is prevalent. This isn't just a Monroe thing. Like this is something that gets preached and I Think people would be shocked when they showed up to a college practice, Whether it was an SEC school or a really good junior college, I think they would be shocked at what happens. It's not just batting practice and bullpens. [00:42:00] Speaker C: Yep. [00:42:01] Speaker B: It's not just ground balls and taking IO like there. You spend time on this stuff because the guys are there because they can hit or they can run or they can play defense. They have skills that are required to play at the level that they're at. Well, now we need to teach you how to play games so that we can win games. And you know that shortstop usually doesn't need five extra ground balls during practice, but we might need to work on some positioning stuff to make sure that we got cuts and relays right, that the ball is going to be delivered to the right spot. And we're working on some of the gameplay stuff. And I think that, I think that people would be shocked if they went to a college practice. I think the pace would throw them off in terms of how quickly you move through drills, how organized it is scheduled down to the minute. Usually the intensity which it's happened, and then the intentionality behind what's going on. Even when you get into like a batting practice rotation, there's base running going on, there's fungos getting hit, there's live reads by the outfielders, there's a bunch station. There's more than just guys hitting baseballs. The rounds are there for a purpose. The practice is just, it's different. It's, it's different than anybody's going to experience. And I think you're hitting that. Some of the details that they, they ultimately help you win games. And it's a transition for a lot of kids. When you get in and you go, oh wait, we never did this before. You get Division 1 scholarship guys show up and they've never been taught how to take a lead from first base without turning their back on the pitcher. [00:43:40] Speaker C: So I think the, the base running, which I, I probably one of my favorite things to work on with the guys and instruct and I think, you know, just being in the game for a long time, right, you see all the, the stuff where it can go bad. And so these are, these are the reasons why we do all these fundamentally sound things on the basis which, you know, you guys know coming out of high school, right. Like you're a freshman. Think, think of when they were. They don't know the first thing about the whole base running and all. They think being a good base runner is being fast. And like. Well, no, actually you're some of your best base runners are slow. They're. They're. They understand their speed. They. They understand everything that's going on around them and, and they understand the situation and they, and they make, they make decisions. They kind of pre. Determine if this happens, I'm going to do this. If this happens, I'm. They think it through quickly. Granted, they're experienced, but the base running piece is so crucial to any team's success. But it's such a steep learning curve at our level. I mean, and really, even though you can instruct and instruct and rep it out and go through everything with inner squads, it's just, unfortunately, it's tough because you got to live. You got to get on a. You got to get on base once in a while and then you kind of live and. But, but a challenge. But. Right. That. That's something that is a big piece of our. In every. Every college team's instruction. [00:45:10] Speaker B: Right? [00:45:11] Speaker C: How in pro ball, that's a big piece of instruction. [00:45:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I think the base running piece is one of the biggest ones not to beat this dead horse, Andy, because we've talked about it on this before, but the. Your freshmen show up and it's. You take. I mean, I would take probably 30 to 45 minutes going around the field talking about what we do just generally at home. Like, what do we do on line drives when we hit them? What do we do on ground balls that get through? What do we do on the first? And then what's our lead there? What's the first thing you have to do? Take my lead. No, that's not the first thing you do. What do you need to do? Like, and the. An alpha. And it's not a knock on high school coaches or like, it's just. There's too much to go into it. And it matters in college, like, you know, what about outfield positioning? And it's. I, I don't know what that means. Like, you need to know where your outfielders are first. We got to get signs. We got to then take it. And like, all of this happens in a span of like 16 seconds. So at some point, like, the game speeds up so quick of like, I need to know where everyone is, get the sign. Sign, know what we're doing offensively and take my lead and then get in my secondary. Maybe I'm stealing, maybe it's a delay, maybe we're bunting. I don't know. You know, and then same thing at second, same thing at third. Like, we'd go around and you know, I, I've said this before, like one of the biggest things and I'm sure you see it, Freshman catchers have zero clue how to run bases because they like the high school rule, especially in summer ball, they have the speed up rule. Like the catcher gets on and then is immediately out of the games to put his stuff on and someone else runs. So they come in like they would take a three foot lead. Like they take one, two steps and they're like, all right, this is my primary. Like you're, like you're, you're going to fall and your thigh is going to hit first base. Like that. That's not a lead. Like, what, what do you mean? That's your lead? Like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, okay. And you know, you can teach it, but it's like it's, it's such a big part of the game. Game. And I, you know, I think that it's like when you're an average player, like I was, you got better at it because it was something that you could hang your hat on of being in the game for. Like, okay, when I get on base, I know how to run the bases and I'm not going to run us into a nightmare and the coaches can trust that I'm not going to do that. And I can go first to third and I can score from sit. Like, I wasn't the fastest this guy. I was an average as average gets Division 1 baseball player. But I took pride in being able to do it because that was one of the things I could do really well. And like, hey, if I'm going to be good at it, like we're going to do this, I might as well be good at it. And this might be a reason why I'm, I can play. And you know, I, I think like people don't realize, like you might not be in the lineup because it's like I can't trust him on the base paths. He doesn't know the signs, he doesn't know how to run. Like we never go first to third, he can't score from second. Like I, what are we going to do? And that like, that could be a deterrent for you to not be in the lineup. So it's, it's things like that that, you know, it's way more for what we're driving at with all this. It's way more than just being able to hit, pitch and defend. There's a lot more that goes into this game. They Got to be good at. [00:48:21] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yep. [00:48:23] Speaker A: Sorry, Andy, I cut you off. [00:48:25] Speaker B: No, I was getting. I was going to ask because we talk about this and think we're strong proponents of that. Junior college is a great option for a lot of guys and I think that we have our stance on why it's a really good option for guys. But I'd love to hear from you like you're a product of it as a player and obviously you coach it. Now, why is junior college a really good option for a lot of guys? [00:48:52] Speaker C: Well, I think there's a couple things that stick out to me right away. It is a place where you might not. You might not. At least at Monroe, I'm not going to have 50 guys on the roster. I'm probably not going to have 40 guys on the roster that I might have 38 in the fall and then our spring roster will be 27. So it's a place where you're going to. Yeah, there's. There's already the built in pressure of, you know, of putting up numbers so you can get to the next place or getting in the lineup or. You know what I mean? But ultimately you're going to have the opportunity to get reps. You're going to have the opportunity to grow in an environment that doesn't have to battle with the portal and nil and all the challenges that are going on in the NCAA right now. I mean, and I think until the dust settles, and that might not be for a while, I mean, we, we still really don't even know what's going to happen with the court case. Is, is the NCAA going to allow JUCO players three years of eligibility? Four years eligibility? Are they going to stay to two? So there's a lot going on with that. But if you're not sure, it's a great place to get a ton of instruction and exceptional educational experience. And you'll still have choices, you know, if you're not getting the things that you think you need to come out of high school, which is probably happening more than ever now because of the Portal. Right. More and more schools are just going to. I'm just going to recruit out of the portal. And so, you know, as four year rosters get older, you know, the junior colleges are right. We'd love to have you, but you are going to get exceptional instruction and have a great experience and. And, you know. Right. Isn't that what we want? We want to have a great experience where it's competitive, it's a challenge and it prepares you for the Next place. And I think more than ever, junior college should be strongly considered by even, and I think it is. But it's still at least in our area. You know, Jucos are not on the top of many, many of their lists. It's just they want to head off and get the four year experience. And so hopefully that'll change. Hopefully more, more. More so than ever. You know, I don't know. That's. It's, it, it makes more sense than ever now, especially with the NCAA going through the changes that they're going through. [00:51:29] Speaker B: You, you hit on the reps. [00:51:31] Speaker C: Right. [00:51:32] Speaker B: Like from a developmental standpoint. You also mentioned earlier a little bit about the fall. Talk about the differences. There's, I'll start it. There's restrictions for Division 1, Division 2 and Division 3 in terms of the time that they can spend. It's very strict with the number of hours and the number of days that you're able to work out in the fall. Yep. Junior college is a little bit different. [00:51:55] Speaker A: Yep. [00:51:57] Speaker C: So our, our fall, for example, we'll start, let's say, September 1st. We had 35 full blown formal practices. These are, you know, your traditional four hour practice. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. We'll play double headers on Saturday or Sunday. You know, between September, we'll go right almost till the end of October, roughly. I mean, and again, the weather, at least in our part of the country, is the best in September through October. So you're getting just significant amount of time outside on the baseball field. And we're still in the weight room four days a week and we're still having study hall two times a week. But we're also our dress rehearsals, which I never quite, I always struggle with that with the NCAA. And I know it's different from Division 1, Division 2, Division 3, but ultimately it's just like, you know, we'll, we'll play 12 games. You know, I mean, in general, we'll play the NCAA schools, the local NCAA schools and play two nines and, and we'll play one of the Jucos that's close by. And you know, I mean, so we'll, we'll have really good dress rehearsals and see what guys can do when we're playing somebody with a different jersey. And it's a good experience in it and it really helps us start to build our team chemistry. And guys have a safe place to fail. Right. They're fall games. It's a good place to fail. They, they mean something. You're still trying to impress and you're competing, but it's it's. But come Tuesday, when I roll into practice and we have all this is what I saw. Right. And it's just a. It's just a great opportunity to fail and then instruct and grow. I don't know if NCAA can match that. [00:53:49] Speaker B: No, it's different. And it's. They put the clamps on you at Division 3. And I think that Keith has his. His thoughts on this, but the idea of disconnecting players from the coaches and they're usually the reason they're at school was always something that seemed a little bit odd to me. When you talk about, like, student athlete experience, and from a pure baseball standpoint, those reps, it's. It's the only thing that really moves the needle from a development standpoint, playing those games, being able to practice the way that you guys practice and know if guys have the goal of being a Division 1 player at some point in their career or being a scholarship player at the Division 2 level, and it doesn't happen for him right out of high school and you're willing to go and work and you're committed to try and get better. I. I just think the JUCO thing is. Gets overlooked sometimes partially because I don't think people understand everything that you just said about, you know, the development of it and, you know, what. What it offers from a baseball perspective. [00:54:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, that. I mean, if all of our instruction is completed in the fall, I mean, everything. And. Yeah, and it's just. It's an ongoing cycle that repeats itself many, many times. But the on field, you know, when we're doing first and thirds in all of our bunt defenses and our double cuts, that's the stuff that's got to be done on a baseball field. And you do it in isolation, and it helps. But when you. When it shows up on a weekend double header, when we're playing, you know, University of Rochester or Hobart, that's all of a sudden like, okay, that looked pretty good, but this is what we got to clean up. And then they come back when, you know, when we discuss what we saw on Tuesday, it matter now. It means something to them. It isn't just this instruction and isolation, which, you know, in the Northeast, we're certainly going to get that in January and February. Right. It's. It's kind of pretend baseball. In January, February, we. But that's why our fall is so crucial and we're so fortunate to have the flexibility that we have. And not to mention November, December, we can still get eight hours a week and that's when we can kind of, you know, tear down some skills a little bit and rebuild them through that November, December. And that is, that's contact with coach. That's, it's really not that much different than September, October. It's just word eight hours. You know, we're, we're digging through film and we're doing stuff more inside the field house, which is a little bit more intimate, which is good. It's a, it's a, it's a nicer teaching environment. It's easier in that regard. But we also had to fall to, to talk about, hey, do you remember this, remember that? Remember, you know, and they, they know, you know, they're like, yeah, okay, they, or they didn't have much success in the fall and they're very coachable now. Right. So we are blessed to have that. [00:56:42] Speaker A: Yes, I think it's huge. The, the one thing and I, I've gone on a rant about the Division 3 NCAA in a while, but the one thing that always boggled my mind was the, the lack of contact with coaches after your 16 days in the fall or up. And then they've since added, you know, you can use your days how you want coming out of COVID but you still like, there are no individuals, there are no. Even if it was six hours a week or four hours a week, once you get through your fall season, you know, there's no instruct or being able to kind of talk with your coaches. I mean you can do academic meetings and such, but you know, from a check in standpoint, you know, the, your older guys, you know, at a four year school, you're not really worried about them academically unless they've been at risk their entire career. You know, but at a place like rpi, you know, most of my juniors and seniors were knocking down three fives and above. Like what am I going to talk to them about? Academics. And I just think that like to fall under the guise of just, you know, school is too tough. Like they've kind of got it figured out and if you're at a four year school, like you're generally deeper into your major at that point point in time, so you're taking classes that you really enjoy and actually want to go to, you're probably doing better. You know, they're there to play baseball. Why not give the coaches a couple of hours a week to, to be able to have that contact in the flip side of it, not just from a coaching baseball standpoint, but to check in on your players and make sure that everything is going okay and to continue to be able to, you know, have your messaging and the things it is that you want to, you know, tell them and teach them them and get them to be able to do, because you, you know, you get through. There were times at rpi, you know, and there's a lot of other things at play with what the school did, but, you know, you couldn't really put anything in in the fall because, you know, what are you going to do? Put in bunt Ds at September 4th and then hope that everyone, you know, not do them for four months and then come back at the end of January and be like, all right, let's run our bunt ease here. Let's be. Chris been really good on them because they're. You're not. That you're going to forget, but it's not going to be as sharp. It's not going to be, you know, you're going to have to reteach it to the freshman. So we would punt on it to the beginning of the. The spring because it's like, well, let's just go play. Let's see where we're at from a play standpoint. Let's get these guys at bats. Let's see what we have to do on the big stuff. And then the minutiae that we got to get into, that's where we'll really break down in January and February before we play, because, you know, we would be missing a whole class of guys with them doing a thing for the school. And, you know, it just got to be a lot where it was like, okay, are we just, like, this doesn't really make sense to. I don't want to say waste time on, but, like, spend time on when we're just going to have to reintroduce all of this in four months. But I think the junior college offers such so much more than I think a lot of people even think. And I think the other side of it, too, is that a lot of people look at junior college as kind of Division 3, where I had to fight this sometimes. It's like, well, if I don't get what I want From a Division 1 or 2 standpoint, I'll just go play Division 3 baseball. Like, I don't think you realize how good Division 3 baseball is, and I don't think you realize how good junior college baseball is. Like, there's, you know, and Andy and I talk about this a lot. Like, go look at rosters all over the country. They're littered with junior college players. It's not because, you know, they couldn't find anyone else. It's because they can look at a junior college kid who had one or two years of college baseball experience and be able to project a little bit more. And they've been through the fire. They played early on. Like, yeah, I can look at a guy and say, hey, he hit.275 as a freshman, then he hit.350 as a sophomore. Like, this is a guy who's on upward trajectory, who's been through it and he has 600 college at bats. I'll take that over, you know, and maybe it is a back end of the roster guy or maybe it's a guy that you're looking at like, we can get this guy and he can play right away versus we can take this freshman and sometimes they will, but we're going to have to develop him into that player over the course of the next year or two. And you know, you're going to get a lot, lot, you're going to get a lot of experience playing at a junior college and you're, you're going to get a lot of at bats. And I think the other thing, and correct me if I'm wrong, coach, like there is like to your point, there's 12 fall games. You can get a real, you can get a lot of experience in those fall games and you inter squat a lot, which, and you have a pretty unique setup at sick. They have an indoor field house where you can go live and do all these things. Like you can get a lot of at bats in inner squats where you're getting college at bats. It might not show up later on, but like that, that's going to make you better too. And you know, it's being able to, at some point you have to be able to play in order to get better at this game. And I think junior college offers a lot of unique opportunities for kids. And I think a lot of people kind of view it through the lens of like, well, it's just, it's 13th grade. Like no, it's not. And I do think, and I, I would like you to speak to this because I know that you do the. Obviously you're a teacher for your stickler for the academics, but Monroe is actually a really good junior college as well. It's not just show up and we're going to give you an A and you get a diploma. You actually have to go to class and get really good grades. And they have a lot of programs that a Lot of really high end academic institutions take their credits as well. So it's not just kind of, I don't want to say a throwaway degree, but it's. It bucks the trend of what most people would think about from a junior college too. [01:02:17] Speaker C: Well, so in the 12 years that have gone by, so well over 100 transfers onto four year programs. And we've certainly sent guys off to Ivy League schools, higher end academic institutions, whether it be University Rochester. I got a guy at Butler right now, all said and done, we've got a couple attorneys. I know we're on our fourth dentist. And these are things I am very proud and will not hesitate to tell parents. I love talking about my four dentists and my two or three attorneys and on top of just all the other guys who became excellent students and moved on and have careers outside of athletics. And we're right, that's what we want. So yes, Monroe, I think nationally has a great reputation for their academic standards. I mean, I mean it's a SUNY curriculum, right? You can go through Monroe and if you decide to stay in New York State and go to a SUNY four year, it rolls easily. And I can honestly say this, when, you know, when I went to Monroe after being at the University of Maryland, I had some of the finest teachers at Monroe Community College. Hands down. You could sense that there, you know, there wasn't 200 kids in a classroom. [01:03:43] Speaker B: Right. [01:03:43] Speaker C: Which certainly I ran into at Maryland. Right. You got 40,000 students, you go to Psych 101 and you know, you're just a number, right? Yeah, that's not happening at Monroe. I mean your class sizes are smaller, but I think your professors take on a role of kind of a, kind of a more of a full wraparound approach where they, you know, they care about you. And not saying that that wasn't happening at bigger institutions, but you know, they've got bigger fish to fry. They got 100 students in their class versus 20. And I can honestly say that the guys who move on to four year institutions, they do well. And like our guy at Butler or our guy at University Rochester, they were good students anyways and they were more than prepared to do well at those, you know, incredible academic institutions. So very proud of that just as much as we're proud of what we do on the baseball field. [01:04:46] Speaker B: You know, you mentioned the Ivy Leagues and having guys go to schools like University of Rochester. I think that sometimes people think, well, if you go to junior college, that path is, is off limits. And I think that that's a misnomer as well that, you know, you go and do really well in high school and then you go and put together a really strong transcript at a junior college school. That doesn't prevent you from going to really good academic institutions. And obviously, Monroe's a little bit unique with some of the tie ins they have to some of the schools in the state of New York. But I think that's a common misconception, too, that if you go to junior college, that you're shorting yourself from an academic perspective. And I think the reality is, is that if you go there and you excel and you take a legitimate course load, then none of those doors actually close for you. [01:05:36] Speaker C: No, no doubt. And it's a regular conversation. Usually when we're in study hall and guys know the routine, it's, you know, trying to get them to understand that, that what you do in the classroom is probably going to open more doors than what you're doing on the baseball field. And if you can do it simultaneously, it's a win, win. And so I think that's the culture we breed in the baseball program is that the expectation is that you take care of business in the classroom. You know, the guys will tell you 100% attendance, 100% assignment completion, hats off in the classroom, phones off, sit in the middle front and break out a pencil. And I think that they get that. That's the expectation. And ultimately, I think that'll carry them a long way. But, right, the doors are going to open, you know, right. If you're 3.0 or better, there's a good chance you might get academic money. And it also opens the doors for those academic packages for D3 schools. And I agree what Keith was saying. [01:06:42] Speaker A: Right. [01:06:42] Speaker C: The, the, the competition level of Division 3 baseball is outstanding. And I try to kind of explain this to our guys. Guys, listen, you want to be open to play wherever you want to go where somebody loves you. And if it's a D3 program, then you should be blessed that they want you. Because D3 baseball is better than it's ever been, but the books and the academic expectations are high. And, and, and I certainly. We want that from our guys. [01:07:16] Speaker A: I think the other good side of it, too, not only from a recruit standpoint, from a parent standpoint, but back to the teaching aspect of the kids. Like you're. You also want your kids to be able to go to a program and not be a pain in the butt. [01:07:31] Speaker B: Yep. [01:07:32] Speaker A: In the classroom, because that. It's the same thing of, you know, it's similar of like I want. It's a refreshment reflection of you and your program, which I know you take seriously. Like, I don't want one of you guys leaving here, going to a school and then you fail out of school in the fall because then they're never going to want to take a guy from Monroe again. And you know, it's. And on the flip side, you go in there and you do everything it is that you need to do academically and you're not a headache. Like the coaches are going to love that. Like, yeah, I'll take a guy from Monroe from a junior college that's going to do this all the time because I don't have to work worry about him. I don't have to worry about him going to class. I don't have to worry about him getting good grades. All the off the off the field stuff is taken care of and we can focus on baseball when he gets here and that there that it means a lot more to coaches in college baseball, regardless of level, when you don't have to babysit kids off the field when you can. And generally it starts happening around sophomore year. But like when you don't have to babysit them in the, in the classroom making sure that they're going to class, they're doing their assignments, they're getting good grades, then it becomes like, okay, they've, they've had this figured out. Now we can. That's when you really start to see strides from a baseball standpoint of like, okay, they got the feet under them academically and in a place like RPI or U of RIT or you know, the league that I coached in, you know, like Clarkson and Vassar and you know, the, those schools of the world, like, it's tough academically and guys are going to struggle a little bit their freshman year. And it does, you know, rightfully so, it does take away some of the baseball stuff because it's like we need to get your feet under you academically to make sure that you're going to be okay before we really start making strides in other aspects of what you have going on here. And once they do, you start seeing, you know, pretty big strides on what they can handle because now they kind of have it, you know, again, to earlier's conversation, figured out that for lack of a better term, like, okay, I know what I have to do from a class standpoint. I know what I have to do from a work standpoint. Now when I go to baseball, I can be 100% all in on baseball and not sitting there like, I got an F in thermals and fluids, and I'm failing this course. And I have all this work in physics that I have no idea what the formula is to even plug in to get the grade. You know, so bodes well in the long run. And I, you know, and I was partial to it just because when I was at RPI Hudson Valley, if you had a 3.0in engineering, it was a free transfer in RPI. And we had juco guys coming out of Hudson Valley because, you know, for whether or not they were ready coming out of high school or financially, they couldn't, you know, afford going to a school that costs $80,000 all in at the time. You know, couldn't do it for four, but we can do it for two. And you're getting literally the same education that the kids at RPI are getting, just at a far cheaper price point, while also being able to play a lot more baseball and develop into, you know, a better player. And we had guys. We had guys who came out of Hudson Valley who work at NASA now. And, you know, it was never having a conversation with the one kid. He was. He wanted to go. We got washed down at Randolph Macon, Andy to go play C.J. and Ray, and it snowed there, and we were going to go down and play a doubleheader. And I was like, look, you're only going to throw two innings, so why don't you stay home? He was giving a presentation to NASA. He was doing, like, an internship with him at school. And he was like, I want to go. And I was like, you're not going. Like, you're not skipping an opportunity to present to NASA to throw two innings in a game in February. That doesn't. No, you're not going. And at the time, he was. He wasn't very happy. But at the same, like, he ended up getting a job and like, it. That was way more meaningful at that point in time. Like, throwing two innings in early February isn't going to make or break your season. Like, he was good. He pitched a lot for us. Like, we'll. We'll extend you out live before we leave to make sure you're good. Like, you're going to. You might throw two or three. Have something that's going to look awesome on your resume for the rest of your life. Like, let's. Let's be realistic here. But I mean, that he was a juco kid. Like, and I think people look at it like, oh, it's junior college. You're not gonna do it. Like no, man. That kid was a junior college kid and he ended up with a degree and a master's at RPI and ended up working at NASA like, and was doing legit, like 3D printing stuff. He explained to me one day it was way too advanced for me in my baseball brain, but essentially like they were trying to 3D print the moon and how they could put rovers on the moon to be able to navigate the terrain, which is something far beyond anything that I would have comprehended at 21 years old. But nevertheless, him and one of our other players did it and you know, it ended up working out for him. But you know, my, my long winded point is that I think that, you know, you can't look down your nose at these opportunities and, and to think that like just going to these, you know, going to a junior college isn't for you because it's not academic enough. Like you're, you're probably going to be challenged in ways you haven't been before. And it's, it's going to be tough and it's going to be tough anywhere, but it's going to be how you respond and where you ultimately end up with, with what you do with your degree. [01:12:45] Speaker B: Parents. If you've ever felt overwhelmed trying to navigate youth sports, there's a new resource designed just for you. Team Match. Team Match is an online play platform built to streamline how families find the right youth sports teams by location, sport and skill level all in one place. It also provides a safe, organized space for kids to share their accomplishments, stats and highlights while giving coaches and teams a clear way to connect with athletes who are the right fit. Less searching, less stress, more confidence. In the process, youth sports just got simpler for families. This is Team Match. Check it out today@teammatch sports.com [01:13:27] Speaker C: in the very least, just, you know, just the financial aspect you have to seriously weigh if you are a New York State resident. I mean, what you're paying certainly what if you're a Monroe county resident and you might be able to live at home? I mean the savings is, I mean they pay more to their travel baseball program than they would to go to Monroe. [01:13:52] Speaker A: That's wild. [01:13:53] Speaker C: It's like, guys, you really got to rethink this. And even so, and as a scholarship program and we can, you know, I generally try to lessen the blow for the international players, you know, who are 99% of our Canadian players. And I try to help them the most. But, but ultimately, if we need to help some Local guys, we do, but it's like, guys, when you hit the four year route, this is really going to be a big change because now we're talking 40, 50, 60 on up. So take, do it now, take advantage of it, right. And, and I think moms and dads listen, but you know, there's still just that, you know, this. I don't know if it's the student athlete or the parents or both or just want to keep up with the neighborhood. I don't know. But you know, they know we really want to go to. I just lost a recruiter. We're like, no, I really want to do the four year thing. I'm like, okay, I don't think it was the best thing for him. But I, that's what I've sensed was the variable in all this. And it's like, well, okay, you know, [01:14:53] Speaker A: yeah, it's, it's, it's wild to me because there's, I feel, and I don't know, Andy, maybe I could be generalizing this, but I, I feel like there's a lot more of a stigma and maybe it's because the Northeast has so many good colleges where like when I was coaching Alabama, there's like, they're turning guys away at junior colleges for baseball because they're, they're like, we can't take 70 guys. Like, you got to go somewhere else and like got like it's in junior college baseball down there is very good. I mean they're junior college baseball. New York is very good, but it like, it's. I feel like there's, there's like a stigma in the Northeast because it's like, well, it's junior college. And I think part of it is because there's so many good colleges up here where it's like, well, why, you know, you go to this four year school and, and do this stuff and. But like if you're going to go to a place and spend an astronomical amount of money and not really play and develop and eventually end up either back at a junior college or transferring, like, maybe the right route on the front end is to look at all options and be like, hey, maybe junior college is the best route for me. Save some money. You know, whether or not you want to live at home, that's, you know, up to you. But you can save some money and you can develop and play a ton and legitimately develop your game to end up at a four year school or. I mean, and this is the thing, in junior college, you can stay for a year, you can stay for two. You can get drafted out of junior college. Like, you know, if you're really good, you want to just go to, you know, maybe you get drafted after your first or second year, you can go do it. It's there, there doesn't matter. You go to a four year school, you're locked in for three. Unless they change the CBA in a couple of years, which seems like they might be doing. But I'm glad you met here. [01:16:35] Speaker C: Nor there, that is, you know, for moms and dads who are listening out there, the draft eligibility. You could go as a freshman, you could go as a sophomore, but if you're an NCAA qualifier, you can be a one and doner, you know, come on in, do one and done and you know, or, or maybe you're that student who has a ton of AP credits. I know there's a recruit we're talking to, he's going to come in with 18, 18 AP credits. I'm like, you could, you could probably graduate and move on and just play one year, have three more years of eligibility left. It just makes so much sense for so many reasons. But you have choices and you not have choices coming out of high school and you're kind of forcing yourself into this little four year box that might not be the best fit and financially it's not a good fit. So I appreciate you bringing that up. That is all perfect. [01:17:36] Speaker B: I think the other thing about junior college that people sometimes forget is that one, it's, it's, it's been lifeblood for college baseball for a long time. Like, you know, I, I remember it was, I think it was the year Ole Miss won the national championship. I think they had 16 junior college guys on that roster. And you know, it's been something that's gotten recruited for a long time, but in today's day and age with the portal, junior college is just an extension of that. It's guys that are two years stronger. They've got 120 innings under their belt, they're 20 and not 17. And coaches value the physical traits. It's an easier evaluation because the competition is better. We just had a, we just did a podcast the other day around how it's really hard to evaluate high school hitters sometimes because the level of competition is so variable. Well, junior college baseball, there's less variability in it. Yeah, of course there's going to be some, just like there is in Division 1 and Division 3. Like it's not the same up and down, up and down those levels, but it's an easier evaluation. And I think that most coaches these days are looking at junior college as an extension of the portal, where we all know that that is playing a role in recruiting period. And the development, the strength, the maturation. Like you're getting a kid who's been through the ringer, you're getting a kid who's been forced to learn how to do the things that we've been talking about and they're more prepared to go play Division 1, 2 or 3 baseball because they've done it already. And I think that that factors in big time. [01:19:20] Speaker C: Yeah, being battle tested is, is crucial. And there's probably still going to be a learning curve coming out. You know, they're still going to have some more bumps to get through, but ultimately they're a little tougher, a little smarter, a little stronger. I think, I think it's a good investment and hopefully the portal doesn't scare them away to scare the coaches away. And I'm getting, I'm actually getting really good feedback from four year coaches because I think they know what they're getting to your point. They know what they're getting versus, you know, you look on the portal and you know, it's, it's a name, it's a number and you look out on Twitter and maybe you see some video and is the video, you know, I mean, it's like. But at least with a juco guy you can go call a coach, talk to, you know, whatever and get good, accurate information, good, accurate video. But talk to a coach and get, you know, this is exactly what this kid's going to do for you. Give him a little time. But ultimately he's going to be a good player in your program. And I think so at least that's what I'm getting so far. So hopefully that stays true. [01:20:31] Speaker A: I think the other difference too, I was just thinking about this as you were talking about Andy, is you come out of the portal, you might be. Or you go into the portal, you might be going in there with three at bats. [01:20:42] Speaker B: Yep. [01:20:43] Speaker A: And two defensive innings played because you're, you're jumping in the portal to go somewhere else where as a junior college player, you likely going in there with 130 at bats and you've played 37 games or you've played 45 games. And there's a lot those two things matched up against each other. You know, most coaches are going to side with the guy who's had success in those 40 games over the kid who has two at bats, no matter how good Your swing looks, no matter what it says, like this guy has had success. I'm going to go with the one who's had success. So I think that there's, you know, and people are always going to make the decisions, go in the portal and, and ultimately decisions that lead you to four year schools that lead you into those, the, the going into the portal. But you know, I think in some regards you can probably mitigate it a little bit if you know, you go a little bit further, dig a little bit deeper and say like, hey, maybe I'm not ready and junior college is a place for me to be able to go develop and not be a guy who jumps in the transfer portal with two at bats and someone who actually is recruitable coming out of it with 300 plus at bats and played 70 games at the junior college level versus two games and two at bats in the ninth inning of a boat race. [01:22:01] Speaker B: Well, and you're the other thing too, that you're not limited by the transfer portal window. [01:22:07] Speaker A: Right. [01:22:08] Speaker B: If you're at a junior college, you're recruitable the whole time you're on campus. You can talk to coaches, you have the ability to communicate with coaches, whether you're a one and done guy or somebody who does it. The more traditional route where you go for two years, you're not confined to the December window and you're not confined to the window in June and July. So in some ways you're getting the development portion that we're talking about, but you also have way more Runway to figure out the right fit. You're not rushing to try to go see schools or try to find the next home. You've got time to put together a plan. You've got time to figure out what's going to be a good fit for you. And I think that's advantageous as well. [01:22:51] Speaker C: No doubt. I mean I, I, I would think that they would want that flexibility and, and, and you know, seeing some numbers, understanding who the, you know, where they're coming from makes perfect sense to me. And again that's, I'm, I am getting good feel for that. I don't know how successful the portal really is right now. I mean the data I'm looking at is, I don't know, you guys probably maybe looked at it more than I did, but I'm estimating, let's say 4,000 and I'm seeing only 50% are landing somewhere. Does that sound about right? [01:23:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:31] Speaker C: So where's the other 50% go? [01:23:35] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's, I think you Know, and I asked this question to a former Power 4 coach and I was like, you know, it's. You just see the portion the of Turtle comes around. You just see all these videos on social media of guys that are 94 to 97 and like, you look up their numbers and it's, you know, a 15 ERA and a 15 to, you know, 15 walks, to two punch outs. And it's like at some point, like the pendulum has swing back and to his point and I do think there's a lot of truth in it. He's like, yeah, but no one's ever been fired for recruiting a 94 mile an hour arm. Guys have been fired for recruiting an 88 mile an hour arm. And I do think there's some truth in that. But like, at, at some point I, I think that there's. People look at it. It's like, why. I don't know if I can fix that. Whether it's a swing or whether it's an arm path or what your stats are. And those guys aren't landing in a lot of, in a lot of places. And I like, because at the end of the day, to your point earlier, like, you still have to go play the game and if you can't play the game, it's going to be hard to eventually find a landing spot because, you know, what are we going to do? Bring in with roster restrictions now at the Division 1 level and you know, it's not going to mean much probably for the next three years, but at least in the short term, you know, until we get to 30, until it's legit at 34, you know, are you going to waste scholarship money and roster spots on guys that aren't really going to help you? You know what I mean? Like, I think coaches have kind of got like swung to that, that pendulum, I think is swung a little bit in the way with the transfer portal of like, you know, if they're not going to legitimately be able to come in here and help us, we're just going to have like, we're just going to tell them to get in the portal again next year. So why even go down that road? [01:25:30] Speaker C: Yeah, I think when I'm listening, you know, I'm like, God, you would think that the development piece could be better and I think should be better with what you have. And I know that there's pressure on coaches, I understand that and I, I gladly don't live it. But I still, like, you know, when I look at our pitching staff, like, you know, we can have plenty of supinators and plenty of pronators and have lots of guys who are 87, 88 with tons of movement, who throw lots of strikes and who get hitters out. I have this conversation with my pitching coach all the time that, you know, in my years in the Braves organization, you know, at that time we were a big change up organization with Leo Mazzoni and you know, we had Glavin and Maddox and all that. So we're a big, big change up organization. But every, every high level, you have to be strike throwers. And if you're not, you know, and if you're not a power pitcher, man, you better throw strikes with certainly two, if not three pitches and that's still good. You get people out. And I still, when I hear about, you know, 94, 95, 96 on up and they don't get people out, I struggle with that. I'm like, God, how do you not get people out when you have that kind of velo. And like, well, they're low spin guys and they're middle, middle. They don't have command. They're like, okay, well get it there maybe how about you be 92 with run or 92 with cut and you can pound the strike, you know, like, where is that? I guess that still is a tough thing to swallow for me. [01:27:11] Speaker A: It's a fair question. And I think the other side of it is like, what's your secondary stuff look like too? [01:27:16] Speaker C: Right. [01:27:18] Speaker A: I think, you know, and even for Andy and I, we grew up on the two wheel jugs machine where, you know, nowadays you have hack attacks and like all the three wheeled machines where you can throw every pitch out there, you can run it up to 100. Like I don't know if V scares people as much as it did when, when we were coming up in this game where, you know, you go face someone who was, you know, in the 90s, and you're like, damn, this is firm. And because you hadn't seen it before, and maybe you had on a jugs machine from a reaction standpoint, but you're hitting yellow balls inside, right? You know, it wasn't really what you were like, now you can go out and just throw the hat attack on the mound at what you think, you know, some different release point and hey, here's 96, like here's 92. This is what we're gonna face. Let's jack it up and see what we can do. And I, I don't necessarily know if it scares. I don't want to say Scarce. I don't know if it deters hitters the way it did years ago. [01:28:13] Speaker C: Right, right. [01:28:14] Speaker A: And you know, but if you don't have secondary stuff to pair with it, you know, you can just sit dead red fastball, like hey, I just got to be on time for a 95 mile an hour fastball because the, the spin isn't good. There's no change up. I'm just gonna sit dead red fastball and see what I can do. And which is to your point though, like where's the development? Why don't we have a secondary pitch to pitch off of that? Why aren't we backing it down a little bit? Like hey, you don't have to be 96 because you're spraying prey. Like let's be 92 with some run and let's run, let's run it in on right handers hands and make them super uncomfortable in the box with 92 bearing down on them and then let's pair a slider off of it to, you know, so they're just not opening up and cheating to that fastball now. They have to respect something that's going to move away from them too. But you know, I, I don't know, it's. I agree, like, I think at some point the pendulum is going to swing back. I just don't know when that is. [01:29:09] Speaker C: I think it is a little bit. I mean that's my gut and it. But there's certainly the philosophy of our program is, you know what, these are the athletes we brought in. We're going to, we're going to develop you. You are going to leave certainly the pitches, the pitching staff. You're going to have command, you're going to have command of a breaking pitch, you're going to know how to hold runners, you're going to be a good PFP guy and as far as the hitters go, you're going to, you're going to be a gap to gap hitter and you're going to have barrel accuracy and we're going to make your, we're going to, we're going to develop you so that you are a good, efficient college hitter and give you a chance as you get older and bigger and stronger, then let your DNA can kind of kick in and build on to that already built foundation. I just would think NCAA schools maybe, maybe they just don't have the time and maybe the pressure is too much. I don't know. That's a tough one. [01:30:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean it is. Andy says this all the time. I'll Steal his line. Like it's, it's a run prevention sport. The, the whole, you know, you're trying to prevent as many runs as possible and trying to score one more than the other team. [01:30:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:30:18] Speaker A: How do you do that? Like, you have to be good defensively and you have to be good on the mound. And that starts with flooding the zone, being able to throw strikes, being able to induce ground balls, being able to make the plays when they're, you know, when they happen and you know, conversely, obviously trying to beat the other team at being one run better than the other team. And you know, I just think that we've in some regards, in part I think it's our fault as coaches, as college coaches, like we've gotten away from the legitimacy of playing summer baseball and like legitimately trying to win and do those things where it's a little bit more showcasey and we just keep showing up, up to the tournaments because it's cheaper from a cost analysis to be able to go to the big tournaments than the one off games, you know, but like it's, you're losing some of the stuff that you, that you, you did. And I don't, there's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube with it. But you know, it's not going to be what it was like when Andy and I came up in this or when you like, you know, it's not Legion baseball. It's not when I played with the D Dodgers and you'd go down and play the Virginia Barnstormers and the Connecticut to play TCB and those types of schools or teams, excuse me, and people would show up because, hey, these are the better teams we're going to watch and play. And now it's like, well, we can just show up at Diamond Nation and watch 540 teams throw A, throw a dart at a mascot and they're probably going to be there type thing. And you, you know, I think it's, I don't want to say it's watered down because I don't think it's watered down, but like you have, it almost becomes more. Because you like most teams have a guy or two that you have, you should probably check out and you end up missing on some of those players, but I think the development piece at the younger ages gets lost because you're not, you're not really practicing. You're not going through the, you're not doing the things it is that you should be doing over the course of the season to kind of get better at Base baseball. It's just, hey, we'll see on Friday, game times at three, be here at two, and we'll warm up and roll the bats and balls out there and let's see what we can do. And we're not going over the things it is that, that base and the foundation that you're talking about, like, you're now having to put in in college where, you know, at least when I feel like when I went to school, like, you had a semblance of a base 20, 25 years ago when we got to college on this stuff, you know, you might not know everything, but at least you had an idea of what bunt bundes look like and PFPs and first and thirds and, you know, I mean, shoot, some of our first and third plays were still thrown at the shortstop and then throw it home and hope that you'd get them. That was my favorite play. But. Yeah, but, you know, or like the pitcher jumps up and catches it, then throws it back home. Like, you know, the low, low percentage percentage plays and, you know, it's. We've come a long way there. But, you know, I feel like there was like, now you, like, you get first and thirds at the college level. My. Towards the talent of my career is like, hey, we're gonna do first and thirds. And it was like, wait, what I. What do I do on this play? It's like, you've never run. No, we've never run first and third place. Like, the catcher just always threw it to second base. Like, that was like getting catchers to peak to see if the runners breaking is like, Was like one of the, the banes of my existence. Like, you have to look to see if he's running home. How do I do that? Well, you catch. You turn your head and your feet are still working towards second base. And if you see him running, then you stop and either make a decision to run at him or throw it at his head so that he ducks and hits the ground and then the third baseman catches it and tags him. But like, little things like that that, you know, we've talked about this entire podcast that, like, those are things that you've probably, like, most kids aren't even taught or even think about, you know, what that looks like in college and it's not easy to do, but, you know, cutting the ball as the second baseman, cut in front if that guy breaks and, you know, I'm third. Like, what's your read as a third baseman? As a base runner to our base running point earlier, like, you know, if you see the second baseman breaking in hard, we're going to hold our ground because he's probably looking to cut that ball off and maybe we take a hard, hard step to see if we can get them to cut. Then we have first and third, or, excuse me, second and third with one out, whatever it might be. You know, things like that, that, you know, there's so much that goes into it. And I, I think that there's, we missed that foundation that we had, you know, 15, 20 years ago. And I'm not saying it was perfect, but, you know, some of this stuff is kind of, We've, we've lost that part of it at the younger levels. [01:34:44] Speaker C: Yeah. And, and I have to bring this up because it's, it's, it's just, it's kind of an epidemic and it's, it's almost more of a, a bad virus. We are very blessed and this is a kind of a plug for my catching coach. Corey Brownston, who was a Rawlings Gold Glove Award winner as a college player, was an all defensive player of the year in the, in the. When he was at the Braves organization. He, he just is like the catcher whisperer. This guy sees the game differently. And he also not only could play, obviously was a great player, played for Pitt after he played at Monroe, but he is an exceptional instructor and he's been kind of my, he's been with me for almost 12 years now and he just really, just works with our catchers now, but he is. We are concerned about the too much glove movement. You know, it's a stuff that guys see on television, which you guys may or may not watch, but we're watching some of the stuff like, where is this coming from? This, this overdone, the overdone framing. I have no problems with guys with nobody on base touching from a knee. My generation of. Tony Pena, when I caught up all state, I oftentimes would catch from a knee to rest or go into a Tony Pena stance because I could and it gave me a nice low target. But, but guys, I struggle with the fact that, that we're getting instruction that doesn't make sense for the pitchers that they're catching. You know, how do you catch from a knee when you have pitchers who don't have enough command? They're 16, 17, 18 years old. They don't have the command that a big league pitcher does. Right. We all know that. And that instruction still persists, but it also doesn't fundamentally create that good foundation for throwing or blocking, much less now, what we're seeing with receiving, where we're getting too much movement pre pitch, versus what used to be just a subtle. Maybe a subtle move up in the strike zone a little bit or a subtle hand squeeze, but as I often say to my catchers and my guys, we don't want to notice you. The less we know you're there, that means you're catching very, very well. And if you're trying to overframe that pitch, that umpire should be ashamed because that pitch should be called before it gets in your mitt, right when it crosses the plate, all that stuff you do with it after the fact. I challenge that. And I just think now it's become kind of a virus out there where I'm trying to get guys to have less movement as their frame and just be subtle. Take care of the baseball. Show the baseball. Take care of it. Get it back. Let's move on to the next pitch. So sorry about that little tangent, but as we were going into this, I'm like, going, oh, my God. And that. [01:37:42] Speaker A: I could. I could talk about that for hours. Oh, and we. You and I probably have, and we will when we see each other again, but it's. It bothers me to no end that we're, We're. We're teaching things that it's incredibly hard to do what big league guys are doing, and it's. We're teaching it to kids, to your point, that are catching guys that don't have excellent command, that don't. That can't do that. That. That do things that 99, 99.9% of the world can't do, and it's, it's hard for them to do. And I, I just. I, I don't, you know, I'm not a. The, the knee thing. I, you know, I caught on my knees. I, I got super low, but I, I, like, I'm of the. The generation. The belief that, to your point, like, the less you hear me or the less I move, the better it is. Like, that's when I was doing a good job and that, you know, you're 100, right? Like, I was. I mean, I think I was a pretty good receiver. You know, I caught a lot of baseball games in college, and I got a lot of strikes called. Like, there were umpires where, you know, and there's ways that, you know, without manipulating your glove the way that we do now, like, there's ways that you can catch balls and present them as, you know, that make it look better than it was, and there's Been. There were umpires when I played where I thought I stole a strike and I would go to move off the field. They're like, no, no, no, no, no, get back here. That was. You can't fool me. That was a ball. And it's like. And it's not even, like, it's subtle. It's not even, you know, I'm catching a ball and extending through it and making it look like a strike. And like, they're like, no, dude, that was four inches inside. He ain't getting that ball today. Okay, noted. Now I know where, like, now I know how far I can go. But like, the catching and pulling it back in and the, the reverse snap up and like. And I think, I do think it's a it, you know, I would quarter turn up and go catch the ball. That's just how I did. It was just a small movement with my glove to make sure that, like, I wasn't going below 3 o' clock and getting thumped. Now it's like the complete, like we've completely flipped it on its head of turning it down and then snapping it up there. And it's like you're just. There's so much, so much movement. You have to be so precise with everything instead of just like, I can just turn my glove and catch the ball and be firm with it and move on with my life. No, I am, I am firmly in your camp, coach. [01:40:16] Speaker C: Well, good to hear. [01:40:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:40:17] Speaker C: And I don't mean to go off on a tangent on that one, but, God, it just popped into my head like, going, oh, my God. And thank God I have. You know, I think programs are always that one. That position does probably get neglected and it never should. It's. In my opinion, it's. The pitcher and the catcher are the two most important jobs on the field. We all know that. And until you get there and it's not good. And it's certainly been a tradition in Monroe's history. We've had great catchers. We've been blessed with great catchers. And I'm blessed that I have an exceptional coach who to teaches very fundamentally sound catching. And he's played at all the levels other than the big league. So this guy gets it. And they need to do. They need to do those fundamentally sound movements correctly before they can get into the, you know, other sexier parts, what they see on television. That's just stuff, right? [01:41:18] Speaker A: Yes. [01:41:22] Speaker B: Well, last question here, Coach. If you were going to give a couple piece of advice, a couple pieces of advice to the listeners about what's important as they go through the recruiting process. What would you, what would you leave them with? [01:41:37] Speaker C: Well, I would say, number one, you have to have player identity. You have to have an honest look in the mirror and understand these are. This, this is what I can do, this is what I can't do. And maybe this is what I can do as I get older, develop, get bigger, get stronger. But that player identity piece, I know we certainly talk about it with our players because they're going to be recruited again and they have to know and be honest about what they kind of can't do. The other piece would be, you know, it's a big world out there. There are lots of options. And because there are so many options and so many good baseball programs in the NCAA and certainly in NJCAA and certainly in NAIA that you should, you should really do your homework on history of programs, on history of the coaches, where they been. And you should visit and go on visits and go on as many visits as you can. And the beauty of junior college, you can practice while going through that recruiting period, which is really, there is no dead period in junior college athletics for recruiting, for baseball practice with them. And I like when a recruit can come on in and, and practice. So not only can they, I see their actions live, I can see how they are, you know, communicating with other players, and I can. But they can also see how we do business because we want it to be a good marriage and I want them to be able to, you know, look at how we do business, look at our facilities. So going on those visits and, you know, if you, if you're going down the junior college road, that is a great option. And I think lastly is, you know, I, it is, it is so tough now with the NCAA that if you're not getting love as a junior and certainly the very, you know, in August before your senior year, it might be time to move on and understanding how the portal is working and how it's really not in favor of the guys coming out of high school. And so I wouldn't spend too much time with, you know, if you're not, unless you're headed to an academic school and It's a Division 3 program, that type of thing, that's a whole nother conversation. But if you're looking for that scholarship program and it's just not there, move on, Move on. So to a place where you're going to have choices because. Right. I mean, and I'm my own experience, my body changed a lot from my senior year. I was a skinny little shortstop and I turned into a catcher. You know who I was? A singles hitter. At best I was a good singles hitter, but I was a singles hitter. I was, you know, and then I turned into a power hitting, left handed hitter catcher. No one would have thought that. So, you know, their bodies are going to change quite a bit and I think they need to be in a place where they'll appreciate that at a junior college program. [01:45:07] Speaker B: Well said. Well said. Well, coach, we really appreciate your time. Thank you for giving us an hour and a half for your time on a Monday evening. And yeah, this was awesome. I think we were able to touch on some stuff that we haven't had the opportunity to talk to anybody else. And yeah, I just want to say thank you. [01:45:32] Speaker C: Yeah, no, guys, thanks for having me on. You know, I love to talk baseball and it's great to see you guys and so helpful with everything with Brennan and that's a great example for folks, right? An academic kid, an outstanding player, athlete, and he took a step back to go forward. And I think because of your guidance and hooking them up with us, it was a win, win for everybody. But I can't thank you guys enough for thinking of us and keeping us in mind and I appreciate you and hopefully we'll see each other soon. [01:46:15] Speaker B: Sounds like a plan. [01:46:16] Speaker C: Okay, guys. [01:46:17] Speaker B: All right, thanks, Dave. Appreciate it. [01:46:20] Speaker C: We'll see you soon. [01:46:21] Speaker B: All right, thanks everybody. Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and smash that like button for us. Check us out on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at. If you want to find out what me and Keith do to help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check us out on emdbaseball.com take a few minutes to check out our new online academy. I promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening. Check in with you next week.