Episode Transcript
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[00:01:13] Speaker B: Welcome to this week's edition of the Dugout Dish podcast. I'm Andy Kirakidis, joined by my Wonderful co host, Mr. Keith Glasser. How are we doing?
[00:01:20] Speaker A: Great. How are you?
[00:01:21] Speaker B: I'm excited. For tonight's interview, we got an extremely special guest on a guy that I was fortunate enough to be able to call my boss for three years down at William and Mary.
Somebody who taught me probably more than I'll be able to articulate or maybe more than I've ever even told him about baseball, how to view the game, how to treat people, how to lead. Somebody I have just the utmost respect for and I'm super excited to have him on. We got the head coach from Merrimack College, Mr. Brian Murphy on today. Murph. What's going on, guys?
[00:01:57] Speaker C: Thanks for having me. Andy, thanks for that intro, man. That was. I don't know if I deserve all that, but thanks. That was great.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely.
No Fired up to have you on. I think it's been a long time coming.
Glad to say that you're a longtime listener and now a first time guest, so. But give the, give the folks a little rundown. You've, you've, you've been around the block, you've won a lot of games, you've coached a lot of different places to tell the listeners. Kind of your baseball journey.
[00:02:26] Speaker C: Yeah. Again, thanks for having me. I'm a huge fan of the pod. You guys fetch great episodes. Some, Some Must Lip and Must Listen episodes and they usually drop in my inbox on Thursday.
And my daughter takes dance class every Thursday. So when I'm in the parking lot, I'M always getting my knowledge from, from Andy and Keith. So. But as far as, as far as my kind of road in coaching, got done playing, I actually played at Merrimack. Graduated in 2003 and was able to jump on the staff at Wheaton College in Norton, Mass. Division 3 school. It had, it's had a great run here in the Northeast and, and kind of nationally. They've been, you know, a very well respected program. Was led for a long time by a guy named Eric Podbelski.
Just probably the perfect guy to begin coaching with just the level of, you know, detail that he brought to things and he kind of opened my eyes to what this profession could be. From there I moved on to Bryant University with coach Jamie Pinzino who has hired me. He hired me twice. So obviously our relationship is, you know, is, was a huge kind of driving force in my coaching career. So we were together at Bryant. I was with him for four years, three years of Division 2 and then our last year we moved to Division 1. Um, and then from there I went on to Brown University. Spent I think four years there.
Was able to kind of, you know, get kind of my first like full time job at this thing and be able to, you know, get in a position where, you know, we had recently gotten married and had our first, had our son. So we kind of, you know, got the stability of, you know, getting a full time gig. I'll always be grateful to Coach Drabinski for, for bringing me on there and giving the experience to, you know, coach at that level and recruit the whole country and do some of the stuff that's really unique about that league. And then reconnected with Jamie Pinzino short after he got the job at William and Mary. Was able to be his assistant for one kind of magical season down in 2000, back in 2013.
And then he got the job at the University of Oklahoma on their staff and was able to get promoted to head coach and was there I guess till 2022 and was carried by some good assistants like yourself. So we had, we had a good run and was able to, you know, you know, proud of what we were able to accomplish there.
Thanks to a lot of great players and great coaches.
I guess in 2022 I was able to take the unique opportunity to come back and coach at my alma mater place where. Place where I met my wife. Place is kind of near and dear to my heart. So we've been up at Merrimack for, I guess this will be year five, believe it or not. So it's been. It's been a good run, man. I was telling somebody the other day that I think this will be my 41st year being on a baseball team. So I think I started when I was 4, and I've been able to take it till, you know, now I'm 45, so I got 41 years. I've been able to add some sort of value to a baseball team, so I'm proud of, anyway.
[00:05:17] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, Gez. I mean.
Yeah. I mean, you've. You've been around. I mean, obviously, you know, you took a chance on me, and up in 14, in the middle of the season, I came. I remember driving down, listening to the 49ers, Seahawks NFC championship game on my ride down to move in with Andrew Phillips and sleep in a spare bedroom to get down at William and Mary after, you know, you took a chance on me. I'm sure Case had a lot to do with that, and obviously, I'm just incredibly appreciative of the experience there. And, you know, we were able to do some pretty cool stuff with some pretty cool players. So I'm sure we'll. We'll get into some of the. The philosophies and some of the things that I think are really important and stuff that I learned from you along the way. So. But before we get to that, first question we ask everybody is, how do you go?
What does the recruiting process look like at Merrimack in terms of how guys get on your radar?
Maybe some timeline stuff and things that you really value in terms of how you build the roster at Merrimack.
[00:06:26] Speaker C: Yeah, obviously it's a. That's a big question.
Lot goes into it.
I guess we'll. We'll keep it mostly towards. Towards high school kids, because I think their recruiting process is a little bit. Obviously, a little bit different.
I guess there's a bunch of phases to it, right? You have to. You have to find the players, right? You have to evaluate the players, and then you have to recruit the players. And those are all kind of different skills that take different connections and different things. So finding the players might be the most important thing. You know, knowing who guys are, being able to get to the right games, you know, because honestly, there's so many events and so many players and so many ways you can, you know, distribute your time just going to the right spots, and that's where you use your connections. You know, sometimes it's as simple as, hey, you know, this high school or this travel program, they always got a few guys. Let's make sure we see them early. You know, unfortunately, other. Other teams know who those guys are, too. So you got to kind of diversify and, you know, figure out where to go and how to use. How to utilize your staff and all the stuff like that. And then when you're there, you know, the evaluation piece for me is pretty simple. You know, like, I try to show up to games with an open mind and try to, you know, let somebody jump off the page at me. You know, I want to see, you know, a trait or a skill or something that jumps out, that fires me up, that makes me want to, you know, add that guy into our program, you know, So a lot of times when you get there, you're, you know, you're. You know, you're clued in on a. On a pitcher or, you know, but you try to evaluate the whole game. You try to evaluate. And, you know, the one thing I. I like to do is, you know, obviously try to see the field from the middle of the field out and, you know, you try to look at frames and, you know, different skill sets and all the stuff you guys talk about often on the pod. And, you know, that's one. One great thing about baseball is there can be a lot of guys that are good evaluators that look at and see different things, you know what I mean? Because it's so much of. It's in the. In the eye of the beholder and what you like and what you think some of the absolutes are for a position, you know, and how you project and all that stuff. And I think that's what makes it really fun. And that's why I do really like the high school recruiting process and being able, you know, kind of dream on guys and, you know, think about the characteristics you like in your program. And then, you know, when you do find guys you like, you know, then it turns into the recruiting process and trying to find that mutual fit and mutual timing and present your school and, you know, see if it all links up. So, obviously there's a.
There's a lot of elements that go into that, but, you know, that's kind of how our process generally unfolds and all the different levels to it.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. I mean, I want to kind of start with the. The physical evaluation piece in.
I learned a lot from you on the offensive side of things and. And being out on the road in Virginia and. And being with you in the dugout, cluing in on some certain things that are of value right Whether it's guys who don't swing and miss a lot or seem to be able to have good pitch recognition and just different traits that I learned under you and I learned coaching the guys that we had at William Mary that seemed to translate to the college level. Are there anything, is there anything that you're specifically honing in on when you're evaluating just broadly a hitter that makes you feel good about that guy's ability to potentially transition and play the, play the college game?
[00:09:50] Speaker C: Yeah, high school hitters are the most difficult evaluations you have because you really have to, it's tough to see a lot of it bats from a high school hitter or a travel ball hitter, you know, facing the type of pitching he's going to see when he does get to college. So you have to, you have to look for some different skills and you mentioned some of them. You know, if you get a, if you get a high school guy that's, you know, punching out a lot or swinging and missing a lot or swinging outside the strike zone a lot, that definitely, you know, is kind of a red flag that, that may kind of, you know, hinder him at the next level.
If you get a guy that really has to, you know, cheat to get to the high school velocity like that, that would be a red flag for me. But there's a lot of different ways that guys can hit. You know, like you have to, when you see a 16, 17 year old kid, you have to imagine him with more physical strength, right? So sometimes those guys that are playing, you know, in front of the outfielders and you know, they're the swing plane looks good and they're on the barrel a lot like, you know, you get that guy in a college weight room for, you know, two, three years, that could be a totally different hitter. You know, we experienced that a lot when we were together. There's guys that are different hitters as freshmen and then, then they are as juniors, you know. So I think there's guys that just have a knack for, you know, recognizing pitches and getting on time and figuring out how to have that like, adaptability within their at bats where they can adjust and compete and, and you know, figure out how to, you know, hit that round ball with that round bat pretty consistently. Those guys tend to hit at any level, but it is a hard evil. Right. So that's why the biggest thing with position players is making sure that the athleticism is there and the ability to defend is there. Because if they can't do that, it's going to be Hard to get them the bats that they need to ever prove to be successful.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Yeah, you hit on the defensive part and me and Keith try to harp on this, that that's one of the things I think oftentimes gets overlooked not by coaches, but I think in the conversation of recruiting and evaluation is the importance of actually being able to put a glove on. Because to your point, you feel a lot better about running a shortstop out there every day who might hit in your a hole if he can really defend and you know, maybe he ends up figuring it out from an offensive perspective for a lot of the reasons that you just talked about. And I'm glad you mentioned that we had some guys that played really hard and I know that is really, really important to you that guys consistently show up, have a really good motor and constantly kind of put their best effort forward. And like the guy that I think of as Ryan Lindemuth and I know that's important to you and I'm assuming that those still important to you and Pat, like how do you evaluate that both from a playing perspective but also maybe like the character evaluation as you get to know some of these kids throughout the recruiting process that clue you in that that guy's going to fit with the standard that you set, which is, you know, I don't remember us having a lot of rules, but that was one that was pretty much non negotiable is that you're going to play hard.
[00:13:01] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Ryan Lindemuth. I mean that, that guy's probably what I mean he's probably 30 years old now. Right. And he hasn't played baseball in probably seven years and we're still talking about how hard that guy plays. So he's, he was one of the top, you know, couple guys. Like he was a program changer with his effort level and there was a lot of guys in that group that played hard. And we've had some guys, you know, since then at various spots and that have been able to kind of, you know, lead the way. But like, you're right. Like, I think it is an absolute, it is an absolute separator for players and it is an absolute separator for programs because the talent gap is pretty small, you know what I mean? Like at every level. And I think if you can get guys to play not just hard enough to stay in the lineup, like not just hard enough to not get yelled at, but to stand out with their effort. Right.
And the thing is you, you can't pick and choose when to do that because you have to create the effort place. Like, you can't start playing hard when you see the dirt ball. Like, you can't start playing hard when you hit the ball in the six hole and you're going to beat that one out. Like, you have to always be on.
And the guys that can figure that out, they can create opportunities for themselves, you know, kind of within the recruiting process in the, you know, the realm that we're talking about today, it is a little bit hard to evaluate because you have to see a guy a lot. You know what I mean? Because you have to, you have to see it. And sometimes we don't get the opportunity to. But that's a question you ask. Like, you ask, you know, the coach, like, hey, is this guy play hard? And most of the time they don't say no. You know what I mean? But it's. How quickly do they say yes? Like, how quickly does that, does that high school coach say, you know, yeah, that guy plays hard. And then, you know, a lot of times you have to, you have to teach that next gear when they do get to your program or at least try, you know what I mean? And some guys don't have it because their motor doesn't run quite hot enough. And, you know, they cool guys or whatever, but like those dudes, those dudes that really do play hard, like, yeah, we've always put a ton of value on that. And like, I think whatever successes we've been able to have, like, you think about it with position players because it's a little bit more tangible. But even those pitchers that, that have a little bit of extra edge or that gear to them, you know, it can, it can honestly change people's careers. And I know, I know for a fact that it is a, it is a tool, you know, it is a skill. It is, it is something that can change programs. So, yeah, I don't know if I did a good job quantifying it, but it's as important is anything. Like, we've had guys in our program that, that is the thing that's got them to our program. Like, you're able to look past some, you know, some maybe skill deficiencies or, you know, a little bit of ink, a little bit of an incomplete tool set because, like, I need somebody that plays as hard as that guy plays so I can tell the other guys to play that hard so they get embarrassed if they don't, you know, So I could name a couple guys that kind of, you know, like, hey, we evaluated you to do this can you do this all the time? Because that's why we're bringing you here. You know, most times worked out.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: I think it's one of those things, too, that when they play hard in the evaluation process, when the kids are playing hard or you get a semblance of how tough they are in watching them play, it stands out just as much as.
And we've all seen it, where you show up to a field, like, whether or not you know the kid's really good or you're there to watch the kid, like, they do. Everything they do screams they're gonna play college baseball somewhere at a high. Because every. Everything it is that they. We all know what it looks like. And I think it's hard to.
It's hard to quantify. It's hard to put into words. But there's. There. There's something about it. When you do it long enough, you see it and it's like, yep, that's what a Division 1 shortstop looks like right there. But I think there's. When it. When it comes to kid that play hard or kids that are tough, like, it stands out to me in those instances when you see it where it's like, yeah, no, that's. That's what I'm looking for right there. We had a kid who was a client of ours who's going to. He'll be a freshman next year.
I've seen him play three times.
I don't know that he's ever walked off the field after IO with a clean uniform. And it's not. It's not that eyewash. I'm just going to die for everything. Because he, like, he. He does it all the time, and it's kind of. It's one of those things where, like, you can't teach that really, to guys. Like, it's kind of one of the. Like, the. You kind of have it or you don't.
But, you know, I. I couldn't agree more. When they get to college like you. You have to teach that next level. We had a kid at RPI who he. He showed up to camp. George Rainier showed up to camp. He had a. He had a hernia from playing hockey and went like. Had like three at bats, had three hits, made all the plays in the field after four innings. And I was like, hey, man, just.
Just take a seat on the bench. I could tell he was in pain. He's like, no, I'm good. And I was like, listen, dude, you're on the team. If you, like, if you want to come to rpi, you have a roster spot. Like, I don't need to see you limp around any more hurt. But he's been playing the middle of field for us for four years.
You know, he's a starting shortstop. As a freshman, he was a really good player, but, like, that, that sense of toughness kind of set the tone for our team. He's Even as a freshman where, like, I'm just going to be tougher than most people and kind of the team ended up taking on his identity. You know, I think his freshman year, he was. He struggled.
And I digress for a second, but I was. I was watching him take ground balls after a game once, and he couldn't see the ball.
And I remember I might have been talking to you, Andy. And like, I was on the field afterwards, he's like, I can't see the ball. And I was like, what? What do you mean you can't see it? He's like, I. I can't see the ball. And I was like, bro, you need to get your eyes checked. And turns out he had a double astigmatism.
We got his eyes fixed, and lo and behold, he was like, wow, that's what seams look like on a baseball. And, like, we turned it around a little bit, but, you know, a great kid, really good baseball player. I, you know, I. I have nothing but good things to say about him, but it was kind of. It's one of those things, I think, that, you know, when you play hard and when you.
When it's not the eyewash, play hard, where, like, it's legitimately a part of your game, that. That is a tool set that you have. It stands out. And I think a lot of coaches will. They might. You. They, you know, you might end up taking a flyer on a kid solely because you saw him play really hard twice and saw him do some really good things, but you didn't get that complete evaluation. But it's like, well, I think he's tough and he plays really hard. We could use a guy like that and see what happens.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: I think of. I mean, obviously, I think Orion Lindenmuth running, you know, coming to a screeching halt around the corner. But the guy that you're talking about, I don't know if you're talking about him, but the guy that I think about when it comes to just how he showed up every single day and how it tends to work out for guys in some way, shape or form, and I've probably mentioned him on the podcast here before, is Owen Soccer and just a.
Just a kid who just competed so hard every single day. You knew exactly what we were going to get out of him. And he always seemed to have a knack to do something of value whenever he got an opportunity, and whether it was getting hit by a pitch or going first or third, whatever it is. And I think that high school kids who are listening to this, what you're saying isn't filler.
A lot of coaches see this kind of stuff, and it's something that's really, really valuable. I know how important it is to you, so I'm glad that you were able to expand on it. But I think it's one of those things that kids have control over that they don't necessarily understand how important that can be, and that it can be a legitimate separator when coaches show up to watch a play that, hey, you might go over three, but if I see you get down the line really hard or you get that really good dirt ball read, or you score from second on a, you know, on a ball that barely gets through the infield because you're doing some of those.
The play hard stuff. I think most coaches these days, especially guys who've been around the game like, you notice that type of stuff.
And I mean, I just think it's a. An incredibly important part of the process for most of these kids.
[00:21:18] Speaker C: You know, Owen and some of the guys mentioned those were standouts, you know, and over, you know, however many years you do this, I mean, there's a top, you know, 5% guys. So there's a standard that all these guys, everybody listening to your pod, there's a standard that your program will, you know, whatever program you go to, that they'll make you play too. They won't let you, you know, hey, I hit a ground ball to short, I'm going right turn out of the batter's box into the dugout, and, you know, I'm getting out of the way of ground balls and stuff. But, like, you know, what we're talking about, and I think what you're. The message you're trying to get, you know, to players that are trying to stand out in the recruit process is if you have that in you, like, if your motor runs that high, if you're. If you're able to do that, it can be a separator. You know, maybe not as much as velocity or maybe not as much as, you know, lights our power or whatever. But, you know, we all want guys in our program that we can confidently put them in the lineup and Say, that dude with how he plays is going to represent what we're about. Well, you know what I mean? So, yeah, if you get a guy that, you know, plays hard, that can be a separator getting you someplace, right? And it can certainly be a separator once you get there. Because ultimately, when these guys get to school, the challenge is who keep getting better the longest. You know what I mean? Like, who can keep improving, who can keep fighting that next role or that next level in their game. And sometimes the ability to just play harder than somebody else in the program you get to is going to create opportunities for you, and it's going to totally, you know, change the trajectory of your career. I mean, you mentioned Owen. Like, you know, there were probably more talented dudes on the bench watching him play because we knew he would do dirty stuff to help us win, you know? And can you play with nine of those guys? I mean, you need some, you need some dudes with maybe a little bit higher upside, but, you know, you do need some of those guys, and they create, they create opportunities themselves. But how they play.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Yeah, they can help create that identity. To your point, right, if you have guys who hold that, who hold that line and kind of bring it every day, it just raises the expectation within the program. They're like, all right, like, this is how you're supposed to do it. And I, I, I've seen it trickle down, and I think it's, it's important to try to find some of those guys. Obviously, to your point, like, you got to be able to play, but if you're, if all things created equal, I think most coaches would tell you, give me the dude who's going to wear it out every single day and kind of, you know, redline it, if you will. So you talk about some of the challenges, like, when guys get to campus, right. And what do you think are some of the bigger hurdles for high school kids or things that they need to get comfortable with in that transition from high school baseball, high school academics, to the expectations to talent level, the speed of the game. When you get to college, what are some of the things that you see that kids have?
There's a little bit of a learning curve there.
[00:24:20] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. You guys did a great pot on this a while back that I think should be, like, required listening for guys coming into college. I don't know what you titled it or how far back it was, but it was, it was really, really good off the field, you know, like, I guess you're just looking for guys that can they. Can live out their priorities, you know, I mean, like, if your priorities to go someplace and get a good education and, you know, you know, kind of manage your time well and all that, you have to actually do it, you know what I mean? Because there are a lot of distractions, you know, so some guys are awesome at that right away. Some guys need a kick in the butt, but they all. They all get there. And, you know, it's every. Everywhere you go to, it's. It's the program's responsibility to help you and give you structure and, you know, there's all the advising tools and stuff like that on the field. I mean, it all kind of depends on, you know, honestly, how good you are, how well you match up with the. With the talent level. Because for some guys, like, you know, they get there and they're able to use the fall to establish themselves and, you know, they're able to kind of get in the mix early and stuff like that. For other guys, it's a little bit more of a grind, right? And the internal competition, you know, kind of weighs on them a little bit, you know, because wherever you go, going to be more than one guy who sort of does what you do, you know what I mean? There's going to be more than one of you. And, you know, like, that whole thing sometimes. Sometimes messes guys up, you know what I mean? Because they're like, okay, like, how do I. How do I get on the field? How do I separate myself? But, you know, guys that, you know, are in it for the long haul, who are about team and about winning and all that, you know, sometimes can kind of, you know, clear that hurdle quicker than others. So there's. It's a lot for them. Like, it's a lot for freshmen, you know, but honestly, you only get these guys for four years. It's not like he can sign it for, you know, contract extensions or anything like that when they're done. So you just, you know, you try to.
You try to get them off on a good start and, you know, we've had a lot of success playing freshmen, so I'm not. That's not something I'm scared to do, like, but by the time you, you know, get 25, 30, 35 games in, you know, if they're good, they'll prove it. So, yeah, I mean, it's a lot for them, but, you know, you got to try to help them with their priorities. My management and, you know, one good thing about being a spring sport is you do have the whole fall to kind of get them up to speed and, you know, show them what it's all about and stuff.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that transition is always interesting.
I think how kids react to the adversity is really important. Like, we've all seen guys who come in and it's smooth for them, the game's not too fast for them and they're able to kind of settle into the pace of a practice and kind of the expectations of the timing of it all, where to be, when to be there, all that kind of stuff. And then you have some guys that they get there and it's a little bit of a struggle. And how they bounce back from that, I think is really indicative of kind of how their career is going to ultimately play out. Those first six months seem to be really impactful for guys and if they're able to kind of climb out of that hole quick enough and, you know, play somewhat of a role as a freshman or at least feel like they're up to speed by the time they get on campus as a sophomore, those guys tend to kind of sort it out. And I mean, it's. I think it is really good that there's a lot of, there's a lot of support for kids on the off the field stuff, which I think can jam kids up more than people realize that first time you're away from home, you know, mom's not cooking for you, mom's not getting you out of bed. And having a lot of that stuff available I think helps kind of smooth that learning curve a little bit.
[00:28:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree with that. You mentioned that first semester, you know, like, you can't always tell, you know, like Zach, what a player is going to be in his first semester. Like, that's our start, third baseman or that's a rotation guy, whatever. You can usually tell pretty quickly if a guy's like, about the right stuff, you know, I mean, it doesn't mean you can't screw up. It doesn't mean you can't make a mistake. It doesn't mean you can't, you know, wear the wrong, you know, top to practice one day or something. Like, like, that's all, whatever. But like, hey, what's this guy about? Like, is he, is he going to get up to speed? Is he on board? Is he coachable? Like all that stuff that doesn't take forever to figure out, you know, because we can, we can help you with, you know, everything skill related and getting you up to speed on different terminologies and all the different stuff that's unique to each program. But like, you know, the guys that have it, you know, you can usually tell in that first semester, like, all right, this is right. We need something this guy.
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[00:29:55] Speaker B: We've seen a lot of changes in the recruiting landscape with the new, the new timelines and obviously, you know, one of the hot topics is kind of the transfer portal. And you know, you were talking about, you know, how the high school guys are, you know, from a hitting perspective are usually the harder ones to evaluate. But we got this new wrinkle with the transfer portal and I know the impact can go both ways and I know you've experienced it both ways. But has, has anything around the, the new communication rules and the transfer portal is that affected how you go about your recruiting process in terms of how you want to build your roster and if so, you know, elaborate on kind of the adjustments that you've had to make since things have changed pretty rapidly here in the last couple years.
[00:30:40] Speaker C: Yeah, they really have for everybody, you know, like it's, it's, it's different. Like you got to, you got to evolve, you got to consider what you're doing. And is this, is this the best model for your program? You got to be, you know, you got to move pretty quick. You know, I was talking to somebody the other day and I said, if you're doing this long enough where you called recruits from your office phone at their home phone because they didn't have cell phones yet. You've been doing this a while, you know what I mean? So now it's like, you know, like you have to just, you have to roll the punches and like you have to kind of build every team the best way you know how. Like the, the Terminology I was using this summer is like, each team's like a sandcastle. You know what I mean? Like, you try to build the best sandcastle you can, and you got to know that the wave might come, knock it over. You might have to build it again. So you have to fall in love with building that sandcastle. You know what I mean? So how that happens, like, you know, the contact rules, they are with the. I mean, I think there's a lot of merit to, you know, slowing the process down and allowing kids to make better decisions and all that kind of stuff. The transfer portal, yeah, you're right. It works in both directions. And there's success stories and there's horror stories and there's everything in between, but it is. It is a real thing. It's changing a lot of guys careers, you know, whether we like it or not. Like, it's.
I mean, you know, in our world and, you know, in the Mac, like, you know, get a lot of guys that, you know, we're able to move up or think that's the right move for them. You get guys coming in from, you know, Division 2 and Division 3 schools. You get guys coming, you know, maybe down from a, you know, I don't know, a little bit higher, A little bit higher division one program. So it's guys coming, going in all directions. So it's on all of us as programs to figure out how we want to navigate all this and how we want to give all these kids that are here for whatever amount of time they're here for the best experience we can. And from a player standpoint, like, you got to keep in mind, you do have to graduate from college somewhere. You know what I mean? Like, you can't. I don't believe you can graduate from the transfer portal. Like, you have to figure out your credits and, you know, like, I know Keith always says you can't commit to the transfer port. You also can't graduate from the transfer portal, you know, so, like, you have to.
Like, the thing I worry about is, like, some of the relationships that these kids are missing out on. Like, you know, like, some of the things about, you know, being in college and, like, we've had guys like that, you know, like, I don't know, Colin Large. Would somebody have given that dude $300,000 if the transfer portal was a thing, it would have been money well spent. That kid was awesome. But, you know, his wife went to William Mary. Like, he was part of. You know, I don't know what's better for that kid. You Know, and then on the other end, I don't remember. Like, sometimes the years get jumbled up. But, like, you remember was Bailey when you were there?
[00:33:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:22] Speaker C: Well, Chase, like, he kind of had the units for a while, you know what I mean? And if the transfer portal was a thing, he would have been in it, you know, but by the end of it, like, that dude's one of my favorite success stories. Like, he worked himself all the way back from the point where he couldn't even throw a bullpen side by side with another pitcher because the second catcher was danger, you know what I mean? Because he was going to throw it every. Wherever the hell. But at the end of it, like, that dude figured it out, was an awesome team guy, and had a couple really good years. So it's like some of those cool stories don't happen anymore. But it is what it is. And, you know, guys are. Players are able to pursue different opportunities. If you're not playing, it's easier to go find a place where you can. But I just hope, like, I hope these guys can graduate. I hope they know what golf tournament to go to when they're alums and they're not, you know, having to go to four of them because they played at four different places. But it is what it is, brother. So we're all kind of trying to build the best sandcastle we can each year.
[00:34:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the things that I appreciated so much about you and working with you is that your. Your ability to look at a situation, assess it, and say, all right, well, we have to adapt.
And that's a different response than I get from some other guys who have this, like, animosity towards it or where, you know, I just always felt like you were really good at being able to look at a situation and go, okay, well, here's. Here's what it is. What are we going to do to combat it?
Or how are we going to live in this environment? And the. One of the things that comes to mind for me from. From a program perspective with the transfer portal is the culture portion of it and, you know, going from more of a program perspective to kind of a team by team perspective. And I don't know if you've given any thought to. To that in terms of, you know, usually if your best players are leaving some of the. The core strengths or the attitude or, you know, some of those. The leadership stuff, a lot of times your best players are your leaders just, you know, out of. Just kind of how it works. Out.
How do you combat that? Is that. Is that something that you think about when you're, you know, at Merrimack, trying to continue to build a culture or maintain the culture that you want, that, you know, that's something that can be impacted by guys leaving.
[00:35:49] Speaker C: Rebuild that culture every year, at least give you guys. Give you guys a chance to do it. And I did not do a very good job of that last year. And I was reflected in that a bunch, like, you know, specific to us. Like, we had a. We had a pretty good.
That would have been, what, 24 season, and we did lose a lot of guys, Rutgers and Maryland and, you know, a bunch of players and, you know, those guys. Opportunities to go do that and kind of happy, but you know how it is. But the, you know, the. The culture behind that is. Is we assumed things would kind of be the same last year, be able to pick up where we left off. And obviously, whenever you have new people, you got to start over, you know, so that's been a big focus for us this year is, you know, just kind of treating each year as it is. You know, I have no preconceived notions who's gonna. Or who's gonna do what, as always, have the right to get better and improve their. Improve their stock with us. And, you know, like, I don't care if we're young or old or. Or whatever. Like, you have the guys that are in your program, you have them for right now.
Give them the best experience you can year to year, right? You know, like this group, let's max it out. Let's see how good we can make it for you. Let's see how good a season we can have. And then, you know, I'm sure we'll have some of the same back, some new guys and, you know, who knows, man? But, yeah, that's kind of the. That's kind of the new deal for everybody. Like, whatever level of this whole college baseball landscape you're in it.
Not this. There's some of those. Some of those stories we all love from five, 10 years ago, like, they're gonna be different now. There'll be other good stories. You know, we have some great guys that have come in. You know what I mean? And as it. Even if you're only with them for a year, well, a year's long, you know, it's especially long time. 21 20th of your life, you know, so let's have a. Let's have a great year, you know, So, I don't know, like, it's we're all kind of figuring, let's go.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it's.
I can't say that I'm envious of it.
I enjoyed the environment that we operated in where, you know, there was a level of consistency there. And now I'm sure it's something that you're going to continue to adapt to.
[00:37:57] Speaker C: The one thing that I, I did really, like, remember we used to talk about, like, how you build your roster and having that dynamic of like, hey, all right, if we're six outfielders, right? Let's think about what we want that six outfield group to look like. Like, how left handed do we want to be? We want to do bang a player. Do we want to do that? You know, could really play center. All right, well, we got that covered. Let's not bet, let's not double up on that because, you know, we're not going to be able to create. Now the recruiting is different. Like, you're legitimately just looking for.
If my catcher is going to be on my team next year, I better find a good catcher, you know, so it, it's a little bit more like you can't plan three years ahead because if you're gonna get burnt, you know what I mean? Like, you have to make sure you always, especially at our level, you have to make, always have an influx of freshman talent coming in because those are on only guys that you can guarantee you're gonna have, you know, so you have to have freshmen like that. You, they can, you know, if needed, can play right away.
And then, you know, hopefully you hang on to some other guys and you hang on to some of your guys that can kind of give you like, hey, here's our, here's our culture. Guys here, here's here are guys that can pass messaging down, all that kind of stuff, but you really don't know.
[00:39:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember running into this situation when we figured out that a couple of our guys were probably going to get drafted a year earlier than we thought and trying to play catch up. And I hadn't really thought about it until you mentioned that, but. But that's kind of the situation you can find yourselves in now. Except you have a little bit of support from the transfer portal. Or if you, you know, you got a guy at the end of the year, decides he's going to leave, at least you have a mechanism to potentially go and replace him. But yeah, I mean, that's a. I hadn't really thought about that. That it's, it does make it a lot harder to plan and it that was something that. I know that we sat down and we had our spreadsheets and we would go over stuff, and I think it was. It was something that really helped us target guys that were going to be a fit for the program and. And specifically go after, you know, certain types of players. And I hadn't really thought that that's. That's an added wrinkle to this whole equation. That certainly makes things a little bit more difficult or. Or different. Maybe the best way to put it is just different.
[00:40:11] Speaker C: Yeah, we. We used to honestly talk like a. Like a. Like a protein, where it was like, all right, what do we have? Like, we need to fill in this spot, this spot and this spot, like, these skills. Now, it's. It's vastly different than that, you know, because you can't. You can't really assume anything. You know, just look for good players all the time. High school players, transfer players, juco players, if that's kind of in the world. But, yeah, I mean, you just gotta. You know, you gotta get your positional strike. You know what I mean? You gotta. You gotta make sure you don't leave yourself shorthanded in certain spots. You know, as far as players. Listen to this, you know, like, it's. I've had guys recently, you know, guys that have committed, you know, five weeks before school starts, that have come in and played the next year. I've had guys if, you know, like, we don't care how you get here right now. You know, I mean, we don't care when you got here. We don't care how long you've been here. You know what I mean? Like. But it's like, okay, we're. We're here. We're all wearing the same uniform right now. Let's figure it out.
[00:41:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah.
With things moving fast in that. In that respect, and you've been doing this a long time, and I know you got ties that You've had ties up in New England for a long time, but is that where you kind of rely on your. Your network of people to try to really uncover some information about a kid? Especially if you got to do it in a short window? Is that something that you're. I know it was something that you did a lot while you were the head coach for us was getting to know different people and asking the right questions. But do you think that there's a. An added.
Like an added value to that at this point with some of the shorter windows to see guys if.
[00:41:49] Speaker C: For us, we're pretty in our.
Some of that's you know, just because, you know, we're wearing our, I guess, 56 Division program may not have the name recognition to go and pull players from, you know, all over the. All over the country.
Other, you know, the other factor that is we still like to, you know, being in the Northeast are plenty of good players. You know, there's plenty of population up here, plenty of talent, plenty of kids are going to go playing.
And I do like to see them often if we can and have relationship with their coaches and, you know, have a little bit of a feeder where it's like, okay, like we get a guy from this, you know, this high school or this travel program, we might be able to. Might be able to dip back in there soon, which might not be possible if you're kind of stretching it, you know, all over still, you know, 95, you know, northeast. But, you know, you never know. Like, that might not be the best method here long term. Like, it might be better to, you know, go juco it or do some different stuff. I don't know. I'm, you know, you gotta. You gotta, man. Like, we gotta. We're constantly. I'm open to Good place wherever they come from.
[00:42:56] Speaker B: You got a Donnie Phillips up there these days or what?
[00:42:59] Speaker C: I don't think there's any other Donnie Phillips is around that He's. He's one. He's one of one. So, yeah, he's, you know. And I've heard you reference him on the pod a few times. And like, I love recommendations, you know what I mean? Like, I love. And he was with guy that if he tells you to go see his guy, you go see. Like, if you guys tell me you got a guy first to see, we'll see. There's a lot of guys like that, but like, everybody knows that, like, the recommendation is going to get you to go see the kid. And then you got to decide, like, all right, does this guy fit what we have? Does he fire me up? All that kind of stuff. But you need those recommendations, man. Like, it's too big of a.
Too big of a landscape to, you know, get out there and just go to games blindly. Or, you know, you chase your tail around, you know. So, yeah, Donnie was. Donnie's good. But you guys know how it is.
[00:43:47] Speaker B: For, for the identification piece, right? We're talking about the networks, we're talking about going to games. Like, there's the camp component of it too.
Is that something that you guys utilize, either your own personal camps or maybe, you know, local camp, you know, nor. I know Northeastern and B.C. and they do that kind of stuff. Like, do you guys utilize that at Merrimack at this point to, to try to turn over some leaves there?
[00:44:11] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, camps, I think, for players have a ton of value, you know, like, you get a kind of a captive audience, you know what I mean? Where, you know, like, you got to be, you know, like, if you go there and, you know, you're 29 or something like that, like, the best you can hold for is to get on a list or, you know, get followed or start to build that relationship. But if you're in the pocket and you can hit it, like if you're at camp, we know you're interested, you know, like, we have all the, you know, information we need on you. We're able to see you do stuff. And sometimes you can do things in a camp or you can, you know, set them up to face the best pitcher who's there, do some different things with the gameplay so you can make sure you see what you want to see and get a really good, even out a player standpoint. Like most of the camps at level on us too, where you're going to get a chance to work with the position coaches or maybe hear some of the hitting philosophy and you'll get some stuff you would never get, you know, on a typical visit, you know what I mean? So I think that's valuable.
[00:45:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
I don't know if we ever hit on how you used to do this at camp at William Mary, where, you know, we had some guys that would show up and we knew that they were a guy that we were interested or knew that we wanted to see and set things up. So know, you, you could try to optimize your evaluation.
[00:45:28] Speaker C: Yeah, you got, you got, you got keep, you got to keep it in. Like if one kid's getting like seven and everybody else is getting three, you might, you might have some parents that are pissed at you. But yeah, like, we, we've, we've gamed it up a little bit before. Make sure that the, the guys are facing the guys we want to see.
[00:45:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, I, I didn't, I hadn't really thought about that. But I mean, the, that intimate environment I think can be really advantageous for guys if you're in the right place. Right. If you're, you know, a kid who's got the prerequisite talent to play a Merrimack and you want to go and try to prove yourself, like that's the easiest way to get in front of a coach and staff. And I think there's a ton of value there. And the, the instructional piece I think is underrated because you, even if you don't end up at that program, you start to hear what the language that college coaches use and where they focus, which I think can really help kids transition ultimately, as you kind of see how coaches are going to communicate with you in that setting, things that they value, you know, being able to talk to like an offensive philosophy.
It's a very different game when you get to college than it is in high school. It's not just swing bad hit ball. You know, you're, you're, you're a piece of a full offense and you need to be able to do other things besides just hit the ball hard. Whether it's, you know, taking good at bats or, you know, just competing your butt off in the box, not getting out of way of pitches, you know, little stuff that actually moves the line. And I think you can get exposed to that as a high school player. And I think it, I think it helps kids with the transition.
[00:47:08] Speaker A: So I, I think it helps them, it helps the coaches too. Right. Like you can get a feel for whether or not this kid's going to be coachable and what their kind of baseball IQ is at this point in time. I, you know, I remember working Columbia camp and it's not just exclusive to this camp, but you know, a lot of the ones where you have the instructional component to it.
I always thought that like I paid attention more to the kids that a could you, you felt like could take the coaching, but also had questions that like weren't afraid to kind of ask some things about what they are being taught or what they know to this point. And I always found it interesting where like those kids tend to be, you know, you know, sometimes the most times they're probably a little bit better. But I also found it interesting where like you would get pieces of information from kids that they're learning stuff that isn't going to play at the next level. And it's like, well, I don't really know if you should be doing that. Like, that's kind of a red flag for me. You know, it might not be for everyone, but you know, I, I think that there's, you can discern that information from a coaching standpoint too. But I, I do think you're right, Andy. There's, there's a lot of value in being able to. That instructional component of a camp. While some of them are just going to be, just satisfy the NCAA rule, but a Good portion of them. You're actually there to learn something, not just do the, the straight up gameplay.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: Now, Murf, been doing this a long time.
If you could take a couple minutes and maybe impart some, some, some closing wisdom thoughts on our, our listeners to give them some tips as they go through this process or, or, or maybe they'll be going through it here shortly.
But some advice you would have to families and players who are striving to play college baseball.
[00:49:11] Speaker C: Yeah, I think the first thing is you have, you have to enjoy it. You know, like, it is, it is a lot that's packed. You know, I know it's a big goal for a lot of kids to figure out how to get to college and continue the opportunity they have to play. But the only way to do it is to be successful where you're at, you know, to, you know, kind of thrive, you know, in the, the high school setting or the ball setting and all that kind of stuff. So, like, you have to enjoy the process. Like, I know sometimes it's not, you just have to worry about, like, the next thing, you know, like, are you around the right people? Are you getting better? Are you invested in your development? Are you, you know, kind of, you know, being proactive with, with your research in schools? Like, are you just doing the steps to create this opportunity for yourself? Right, because ultimately, like, nobody knows how it's going to happen. Everybody's recruiting process is different. It's almost if you're at a, you're at a party or something and you're talking about, like, how everybody met their house, you know, I mean, maybe some spouse, third, and some people on an app and some people met, you know, at the close of a bar or whatever. Like, everybody's got a different story for like, how they got together. And it's the same thing with recruiting. Like, no, you don't know what's going to create this opportunity for you. What's gonna, you know, what's going to be the thing that kind of gets you a chance. So you just go and just try to go to the right places and be with the right people and, you know, just keep getting better. You know what I mean? Like, don't worry about, you know, what's not happening or who's not calling or who's, you know, what you think supposed to happen or, you know, all that kind of stuff. Just honestly just you get, keep getting better, keep doing what you're supposed to do. Using your academics to open doors up, you know, like all that kind of stuff for Families, you know, like, you can't do it for your son, you know what I mean? Like, they have to want it, they have to do it, let them be proactive. But it's going to be their life, you know, it's going to be their life when they get there. So they have to really want to be, they have to be about it, you know what I mean? Like, I've done, you know, countless visits where it's like get parents to dominate the, the flow of it and it's like, yeah, it's great, enjoyed, enjoy meeting you, but I'm not coaching you, you know what I mean? I'd love to hear what your son has to say about this. And I know a good place. Like I'm sure I'll probably, if I'm ever lucky enough, I'll probably do the thing, you know, like let him, let him enjoy it.
As far as like the college search process, like yeah, obviously the recruiting piece, you know, like in baseball, so important, all of us. But you really do have to pick the right school, you know what I mean? Because if, if you don't, you know, it's very rare that the baseball stuff works. Like you got to be in a good place academically, you know, I know the finances are important for everybody. So you got to kind of do your legwork beforehand and understand when you're getting into and just be open minded about different, you know, aid sources and all that kind of of stuff. Because every level and every school and everything's vastly different with, with how baseball plays. Into all that, there's a, that goes into a lot of, it's uncontrollable by players, you know, so you just have to enjoy it and do your best with all the different aspects of it. So glad to unpack any of that. There's pieces within that that you want to get more into but you know, it's a ton and you don't know how it's going to go and you can't control it. So do your absolute best, enjoy the ride, you know, and you know, try to just give yourself the best opportunities with all the different kind of pieces of it.
[00:52:40] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a, it's super competitive right now. From, from a baseball perspective, I think it might be more competitive than it's ever been. And I think your advice around just making sure you're consistently doing the right things to, to put yourself in a position to get recruited, whether it's the weight room, whether it's nutrition, the academic portion, like you about not closing doors from an academic perspective, like, I think that that really matters, which feeds into, you know, some of the financial stuff that you're talking about. And the, you know, baseball scholarship money for most kids who play in college isn't going to be their main source of, of financial support. It's going to be financial aid. A lot of it will be merit based, depending on where you go to school and having those things in the forefront of your mind as a player and as a parent that, you know, there's, you have to do the things that are required of you just to get into the mix. And then you got to hope that, you know, you get some of your planning and your process stuff right where you're in front of the right schools and, you know, you perform well at the right time. But, you know, I think a lot of kids start really thinking about this, this process a little late at times and forget that it is a process and it takes time. And you know, for a lot of guys who are sophomores in high school right now, you've got 18 months, two years to really get this together and get yourself in a position to be recruitable. And it starts with kind of having a plan and an expectation and being able to do things that are required of you to be successful in this. So I think that advice is awesome.
Anything else you want to add, Coach?
[00:54:22] Speaker A: No, sir.
Right.
[00:54:25] Speaker B: Well, Murph, I appreciate the hell out of you. I'm glad that we were able to finally get you on.
Yeah, I'm incredibly appreciative for you for a variety of different reasons and just express my, my love and appreciation for you as a, as a former boss and somebody I consider a good friend. And I'm glad you're able to come on and, and, and shed some light on some really important topics today. So really appreciate you.
[00:54:56] Speaker C: Thank you guys for having me, man. Andy, you know, I appreciate the kind words, dude. It was some of my favorite years in coaching were with you, down with us. So I appreciate it and I enjoy, enjoy what you guys are doing a lot. Really valuable content for the listeners here. So you guys have a, guys have a great night. All right?
[00:55:12] Speaker B: All right. Thanks, Murph. I appreciate you.
[00:55:14] Speaker A: Thanks, Murph.
[00:55:14] Speaker C: See you guys.
[00:55:15] Speaker B: Thanks everybody.
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