Episode 157: Infield Play with Former MLB Player Kevin Smith

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hey, parents and coaches, are your kids using the right glove? The most important skill for youth athletes to learn is how to play proper catch. The problem is most youth gloves are made with bad leather and are too big for small hands. They actually make it harder to play catch. That's why former Major League Baseball shortstop Kevin Smith created Cali Gloves. Cali gloves are crafted from 100% Japanese kip leather and are the perfect size for kids. All Cali gloves come with palm slits, finger loops and elastic wrist lacing that encourage proper hand placement. The right closing patterns and give kids more confidence to go make plays. Cali gloves even allow parents to break in the glove without stretching out the fit. It's the glove Kevin wishes he had growing up and the glove all his teammates want for their kids. Visit caligloves.com to learn more and help your kids play better catch. Cali Gloves K a l I gloves.com [00:01:10] Speaker B: welcome to this week's edition of the Dugout Dish podcast. I'm Andy Kira Kutis, joined by my Wonderful Co host, Mr. Keith Glasser. How we doing? [00:01:17] Speaker A: Great. How are you? [00:01:19] Speaker B: We got a return guest tonight. Pretty excited about this one as usual, but I'll, I'll kick it over to you for the intro. [00:01:28] Speaker A: Sure. I think this is our first actual return guest. Jonathan's not going to count, but I don't think we've had a return guess so far. But tonight we're joined by a former player of mine and former big leaguer, Kevin Smith. Kevin, as always, again, thank you for joining us. [00:01:48] Speaker C: Thanks for having me, man. That's a, that's a big accomplishment for me to be the first repeating member. So hopefully I don't screw it up. [00:01:56] Speaker A: I'm fairly certain outside of Jonathan, who's, I mean, Jonathan's been on a ton of them because we always talk college baseball. So he's, we've passed the point of him being a repeat guest. He's just, you know, regular. [00:02:07] Speaker C: Yeah, he's a guy now nowadays. [00:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah. You're our first, our first repeat guest. So happy to have you on. This is back to back weeks of a former player of mine. So I'm, I'm very happy. Who was last week spreading my, my tree here? Andy. Kid who played for me at rpi. Joe. Nice. He's, he's actually, he's a double A hitting guy with the Cubs now. So we got into a lot of hitting, a lot of analytical stuff. We, we, we, we got into the weeds on, on a lot of that stuff. It was good this week. More Defense? [00:02:45] Speaker C: Yeah, dude. There's a lot of guys that can go into the weeds on hitting. I kind of. I leave it to those guys. I feel like that's all hitting is nowadays. [00:02:52] Speaker A: So it is. [00:02:53] Speaker C: Well, it's good. You need them, you need a hit. [00:02:57] Speaker A: You know, you also have to play defense. One thing that a lot of people don't, we, especially younger kids, we get away from, we think that we can just be a dh. And unfortunately, at the college level and beyond, you have to put a glove on your hand and go. And go play baseball with that glove on your hand. And I think sometimes, in many instances in today's youth game, we've gotten away from of what we. What we like to do and what we like to talk about and teach from a defensive standpoint, because it matters, right? Like, if you want to play at a high level and you want to play in college, you want to play beyond, you have to be able to defend, and if you don't, you're just not going to play or be recruited or drafted or signed or. Or any of the above. [00:03:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I think, you know, when you become a dh, you're. You're essentially putting yourself against everybody else on the team. And when you can play good defense at a position, you're really limiting who could play above you. And so I think the more defensive spots that you can be average or better at, it just gives you a better chance to. To have some playing time. And if you do have a cold spell, you're not hitting well, you're still in the lineup versus if you're a dh, you better smash. And now just like we were talking about with hitting, kind of where that's going, it's like everyone seems like they can hit well enough at whatever level they're at to play. It's just you're seeing more and more guys not get the playing time because of the other side of the ball. And I think that's going to keep. I think it's going to keep getting more important and more important as the hitting side just keeps getting elevated to more importance that. All right, everyone can smash. Now, when you get to college, everyone can smash and you get to the pros, everyone can smash. But who has a. Who has a game plan, who has some position on defense where they can add value? And so I think that's. That's a spot where I think you don't have to be as good. I think there's ways to be really good at defense easier than it is to hit 96. And so I think a lot of kids could buy themselves a lot more playing time and maybe go up a level or two that they probably otherwise wouldn't. Just by paying attention and training properly on the defensive side, I really think it can just help. And in being better than average or really good, I don't think is as hard as being really, really good hitting. And so I think there's a lot of opportunity there for kids. [00:05:17] Speaker A: Oh, it's a separator, you know what I mean? Like, especially in the recruiting process, it's separated where, you know, if you can prove that you go out and be really good defensively, then you know that not to say the hitting doesn't matter, but you can live with a guy who can really defend in the middle of the field who might need to come along with the bat versus, you know, hey, I went on a corner outfielder who's just going to smash because, you know, not nothing against outfielders, but I can get somebody to catch a ball out there and look rather athletic because right athlete. Whereas like, it's a lot harder to defend in the middle of the field and say, like, hey, here's a dude who like, if you're given two, like the guy who is a below average defender but can swing it and above average defender who needs to come along, like most people are going to side with the guy who's the super high end defender because that stuff matters in college baseball. Like those plays need to be made. And you know, it's, it's the, I think one of the hard things too. And I'm sure we will probably get into it, like when it's not necessarily the showcase stuff that we're going to be talking about. It's gameplay stuff where like, you know, we can, We've all seen them, you've been in them. I can't tell you how many showcases I've gone to. I'll be completely honest with you. The vast majority of coaches when they're recruiting at these showcases, like, they don't really care about the ball that's hit at you or the ball that goes glove side, right? Like, generally speaking, anybody can make those plays. [00:06:43] Speaker B: Like, right? [00:06:44] Speaker A: People want to see, can you make the backhand? What do you look like on the slow roller? Because those two plays right there are the separators amongst the. Everyone who's, who's in that position making those plays. [00:06:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:56] Speaker A: And you know, there's nuance to it. It's a very general blanket statement I just made. Right? Like not everyone can play shortstops or maybe you don't have the arm to go in the hole and stick it and throw a guy out. But hey, man, he's really good at glove. We can put him in second base right there. There's more to it than that. But you know, like the, when you get into the defensive stuff, it's not always about the flash and the ball that's hit at you and then the glove side, like it's, it's. What does it look like? And how can, can you get to that backhand ball, stick it and go, you know. Or do you have to take 47 steps to get yourself going? Because hey, by the way, that guy has to run down the line. He's probably going to be safe. And can you feel the ball, you know, off the correct foot and throw off the right foot when you're going across the diamond on a ball that you have to come get because it shows a level of athleticism and like those things, you know, they, they matter in a showcase setting because it can, it can clue guys into like, yeah, that's what he looks like. And I'm, I'm the non infield guy talking to two really good infield guys. But they can clue you into what it looks like and what, how good that kid might be when you're going to go watch him or. Yeah, I don't know if he's going to be good enough to do and maybe I don't necessarily pay attention all that much, but so it matters. But really what matters is when you get into the. And what, when the lights are on, the balls are hit at you, what does that look like? And do we make the place? [00:08:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I think, I think the showcase, the defensive side of the showcase just does such a disservice to everybody involved. I mean, I remember even when we were doing showcases, you almost had to train for a week to get ready for the showcase because it was so different than anything you do in a game. There's so much different than what we would prep for the whole year and it's just not realistic. And I feel bad for kids because they go there and then they have the, you know, the most colleges and eyes on them that they have their whole life. And it's, it's just how hard can we throw it? You don't want to make a mistake. It's, you know, it's not athletic, it's not smooth. And you see guys just making plays that you'll never make on a baseball field, whether it's crow hopping three times to throw it as hard as you can. Like, just. It's not okay. Show off your athleticism, show off your movement, show off whatever it is that makes you successful in the field. It's okay. We really want to see how hard you throw it across the diamond. We want you to make this outrageous backhand play that you'll probably never make. And, you know, it just. That aspect of the showcase really does stink. But I will say, just like you said, I think the best colleges and the best scouts in general are looking at the athleticism. What does he look like? You know, how does he move around the ball? What routes does he take? What does his pre pitch look like? All of these things that I don't think kids are ready for or know that they're getting queued on. And so I think there's just a little. A little miscommunication on, I think what the best are actually looking for, what the best scouts are they're looking for, versus what everyone thinks is going on, you know, on the sidelines. [00:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And most of them, I mean, we could talk about showcase for hours. That I won't do it. But the pop time. I hate it. [00:09:59] Speaker B: But we're here to talk. [00:10:01] Speaker A: Like, it's not like the. The pop time is the most irrelevant and useless stat in a showcase that I think. [00:10:09] Speaker C: No, it's insane. It's insane. I mean, every. I think every year since I was in the big leagues, there was at least 10 or 20 catchers in the country that were juniors that had better pop times than anybody I played against, you know, and it's. It's crazy. And the, like, I mean, you guys would know better. I don't really. I don't know a college coach who even cares about it. Honestly, like, from showcases, they're not recruiting a guy at a 16 because they know that the best big league catchers are at 1 8. And so if you're a 1 6, you're not, you know, and so it's just kind of irrelevant. [00:10:42] Speaker A: I think the other thing too, and I'll get off this soapbox and we'll talk infield play. But to your point about the athleticism, how you move and all those things, like, and you know this, having played at a super high level and played in the big leagues, like, how many times are you actually throwing runners out in game? [00:10:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:59] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Like, you might throw once or twice in a game maybe. [00:11:05] Speaker C: No, it's way more about how you command the pitching staff. You know, all of that stuff. [00:11:11] Speaker A: Like, you're gonna you're gonna catch 150 balls just in game. That's not even the bullpen. That's not in between innings. Like, you gotta be really good at that. And then you're probably gonna block 15 to 20, depending on who's on the bump. And then you might throw twice. So, you know, I don't necessarily. Not a lot of people put a whole hell of a lot of stock in how well you throw because it's, it's tertiary to what you're actually, what your actual job is to command the strike zone, be able to catch. Like you're, you're a catcher. Your number one job is to catch the baseball. Not like you're not a thrower back there. Like you're a catcher. So catch the baseball and then block it and then go from there. But I think that like the showcase thing has gotten away from it to your. My point was to illustrate that like we've gotten away from what actually happens in a real life baseball game. Right. And realistically, I get the pop time because it's, it's the only thing you can put a metric to in a show. Like, you can't put a metric on receiving and blocking. Like, you can really only put a metric on, on, on throwing to second base. But again, like, it gets convoluted. Like where, because you don't see them. Like, where's your 1 6? Did the shortstop have to jump for it? Because that ain't a 1 6. Like, that's a 2 3. Because he has to catch it and then come down and try to tight. Like you ain't throwing anyone out there. [00:12:34] Speaker C: No, no, you see both sides. And I, and I feel for college coaches that need to look at 100 kids and try to figure out what's going on. It's like the only way you can do that isn't a showcase, you know, and it makes it tough. And like you said, you know, to really spend time watching somebody receive their athleticism back there, how they handle coaches, the pitching staff, calling pitches, I mean, that's a lot. And so you can obviously narrow down people a lot in a showcase setting versus going to 160 high school games. So I get that. You know, I think it's just tricky when you have kids that they know this is the only chance they're going to get in front of 50 coaches. And this is the, this is the setup that they have to go into. It's. For me, it was always tough that way because I knew if someone who came to watch watched us play and saw how we played the game and could see live at bats and everything, you get a different story. But I think that's also what makes good recruiters in college is the fact that they can see through all the mess and they can see athleticism, they can see movement, all this type stuff. So it works both ways. But I think, you know, hitting wise, you know, if you're, if you're getting live at bats in a showcase or you know, at least they can see your swing. Your swing is pretty similar from BP to games. You might miss pitches, but at least they kind of know what it looks like. I feel like defensively it's just, it can be all over the board, which, which makes it tough on recruiters. [00:13:51] Speaker B: It makes it all that more important to see games. And I think that every, every coach that we talked to and you know, it was important for, for me when we were doing it too, is that you see a kid in the showcase and you know what you're looking at. You've been around the game. You played at the highest level. Like you can go watch a kid take ground balls and go, that kid might be pretty good. And then you got to go figure out like, is he actually good? What happens when somebody's getting down the baseline? You know, little stuff in terms of does he make adjustments pre pitch, Is he in the right positions when the ball goes to right field, is he, you know, you can tell when a kid's really comfortable on the field and they're, they're moving fast but they're not rushed. Like I think that's a really good indicator that a kid's comfortable is that they can play with pace but they never seem like they're out of control. But I mean, at the end of the day, I think baseball is just, it's a run prevention sport. It still is and always will be. And I'm going to throw this stat out there because I've been holding this in my back pocket and I think it's awesome. And we're going to do a podcast on this some time around why athleticism is a key piece of the recruiting piece. And then we'll get into the infield stuff. But there's 299 Division 1 schools. 70 have an ERA under five, right? 70, okay. 284 of the 299 score, five more five or more runs a game. So when you look at why do coaches love athleticism, why is defense important? Is because it is way easier to find a way to score runs than it is to create run prevention. And it's why athletes, guys who can play defense, pitchers who can throw strikes and have the stuff that's prerequisite, like just you can find a way for an above average defender who's a below average offensive player to be productive for you. But if you put that kid out at shortstop and he's going to, he's going to kick a ball a game, like you're gonna have to do something absurdly special offensively to make up for that piece of it. [00:15:57] Speaker C: So, yeah, that's pretty crazy. And, and I also think just hitting is evolving. Like you guys just said you had a guy on talking about analytics side. I think hitting and coaching, hitting is evolving so quickly. That's, that's like everybody, it seems like everybody's bread and butter and everybody has a system or a way to make guys better. And I think we're getting a lot better at making hitters better in college. Right? Like a lot of guys are getting better and we kind of know what the metrics are to make guys better and the drills that certain guys have to do. And so I think coaches are going to be leaning way more in the next five, 10 years on getting good defenders, knowing, hey, if we bring him into our system, we know what we're doing on the offensive side. And so if he's a good defender, we can bring him in and we know he's going to get better there defensively. You know, I think, I still think a lot of college coaches are putting a lot more stock into the hitting side of, of getting coaches that can teach it, that understand the hitting side. You know, pitching obviously has been huge with pitches, pitch design and shapes and stuff like that, where those guys are getting a lot of the credit. But I still think the defensive side, I think is, is still not picking up because there's so many stats and numbers on the hitting side that can tell you what's going on with the hitter. And so you can diagnose a hitter really, really fast, right? There's like four or five metrics that you can throw at me and I can diag what's wrong with that hitter, what he should be doing. You know, Driveline's getting really good at that. Pro guys are getting really good at that. Even college guys are getting good at that. But I think the defensive side, like you said, catching, obviously a lot of pro teams now have receiving stats. They have all this type of thing. They have, you know, game plan stats where they let catchers call games and they Trace it back to what the models say they should have called. And so they're learning that way. And then on the defensive side, there's a bunch of metrics being put because they're trying to put numbers on players so that they can say, okay, this is where you need to get better. This is how we can help you. And then it's mostly on the hitting side right now, which makes it fun for guys because you can get a lot better quicker. On the defensive side, I think a lot of it is just not going to be in the numbers. Like, it's a lot of feel. It's a lot of athleticism. It's a lot of, like, understanding the game, what your body does, movement stuff where, like you said, you know, you can. You can put a number on someone's arm, and you can put a number on how fast someone runs. But unlike hitting and pitching, I can show you four or five guys that have the same arms or the same, you know, velocity across the diamond and the same exact 70 or 60 time, and they're going to be, like, worlds apart on the defensive end. Right? It's, like, so hard to put numbers on who's a good defender. And so I think people just shy away from it or, you know, let's spend our time pitching and hitting just because at least we can quantify stuff and get better, which I totally understand. That's where I think there's just a huge opening for the defensive side, and I think everyone's going to start honing in on how do we do that once, you know, pitching and hitting is just light years ahead. And guys that can figure out the defensive side and doing the right things and making people better on the defensive side, they're going to really see, like, an advantage against other teams. [00:18:55] Speaker B: Well, let's start. Let's start before the pitch. Like. Well, first off, if you're not following Kevin on Twitter, he's written some amazing articles recently. So go and check those out. [00:19:08] Speaker C: And they're long. Yeah, they're long. Couple of days, probably. [00:19:11] Speaker B: They're 100. They're 100% worth your time. Especially if you're a young infielder. If you're a high school kid, if you're a college kid, like, learn from somebody who's done it at the highest level, who it was, the thing that he did as well as anybody. Like, read it. It's incredibly informative. I enjoy the heck out of it. I learned some stuff that. Some new verbiage, some different ways to think about it. I think it just awesome. But let's start. [00:19:34] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:19:34] Speaker B: Before the pitch even gets thrown, like, you have a whole article on pre pitch routine and timing of pre pitch. Talk us through some of that and why that is so important. [00:19:45] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I would, you know, I would say since I was in high school, we talked about pre pitch and I tried to focus on it. I was never the fastest kid, so I knew I had to get some sort of an advantage on kids. And luckily I had guys all growing up like Glass who are just defensive oriented that, you know, made us focus on it and take time to practice it and practice. But, you know, so many things go wrong before the pitch and. And this is something that I think college coaches look at. You know, just back to our showcase thing. Like, it's super easy to see in showcases. If you can't execute a pre pitch and be on time for a fun go, you're going to have no shot in the game. Right. And so just working on that in practice, as, you know, call it your soft toss on defense. But just learning how to get on time with the pitch, being in the air at contact, just putting your body in a position to move well, like all of those things, I don't think there's probably some kids that have never even heard or have talked about that before. And maybe spending one hour just honing in on that and understanding what it feels like to be on time and understanding where your body needs to be when the balls hit so that you can make an accurate decision and that you can see the ball well and you can make a first good movement. I mean, I've seen young kids, you know, 17, 18 years old in organizations, when they come in and just talking to them about what they're doing versus what they should be doing pre pitch, you know, it almost unlocks athleticism that they didn't know they had because now they're seeing the ball better, they're on time. Their body naturally starts making the right decisions. They. They feel like they see the ball and the hops better and that leads to them, you know, picking out better hops, fielding better errors, turn into outs, you know, catches that normally they're throwing away, now they have way more time to execute. And so just being on time pre pitch, if you're not on time pre pitch, it's going to be really hard, right? You're going to make routine plays really hard because you're not going to see the ball well, you're not going to pick good reads. But anything that you know is outside of the routine ball, you're going to have almost no shot because you're not giving yourself the range that you need. You're not going to be able to maximize, you know, what you can do as a defender. And so I would, I would work on pre pitch stuff all the time. Even in BP when balls weren't getting hit at me. I mean, it was a huge emphasis with the Yanks, who I think on the defensive side of the game are probably better than anybody out there as far as what they're looking at and the research that they're doing and how they're helping players and, and that was fun to be around and to pick their brains on. But, yeah, I mean, I think pre pitch, just putting your, your body in a position, you know, to go laterally versus going forward at the ball is huge. It'll give you a lot more range. And then just being on time and being off the ground at contact, you know, I think you can keep it as simple as that of just putting your body in a good position and being on time at contact and those two things. I think if you tell a kid and you give him a couple reps, he's going to unlock something that he didn't really knew he had. And it's pretty special when they feel it. [00:22:42] Speaker B: Those BP reps are like you hit on, working on your timing when you're not getting a fungal hit to you or you're just out. Yeah, that's where you work on it for the, for the high school hitters out there. Like, if you get to take on field bp, don't go through the motions because to your point, it's. You're going to get the timing right one time and you're going to go, oh, that's what it feels like, because you feel like you've, you've got like a sprinter start because your feet hit the ground at the right time and now you're athletic in the lateral directions and you just feel like you're like, in tune with what's going on. And it's a huge thing. When you're in the middle of the field, you get the full picture. Right. When you're at shorter second, you can see everything. You can see the wind up, you can see the pitcher's hand, you can see the strike zone. You can see it kind of all in one picture. And obviously there's kind of a fine focus at a certain point where you're really looking into the hitters. I had trouble with this, so when I first came into college, I was always a shortstop. I always played shortstop, always played in the middle of the field. I don't even know if I ever took a rapid second base. It was always a shortstop. And I got to college and I was coming off a knee injury, and I just wasn't mobile enough to play shortstop right away. Ultimately ended back up over there for three years, but when I went over to third base, I had. It took me almost a full fall to get acclimated with how do I get my eyes and my feet in tune because I couldn't see the whole picture. And you actually talk about this at one point. I'm not sure if it's in a tweet or if it's in one of the articles, but talk about the difference in how you get ready at third base versus you do at shortstop. Because for me, I didn't learn quick enough. It took me a while to figure out that I need to get my eyes to the hitting zone and I can't track the ball there. [00:24:40] Speaker C: Yeah, no, it's huge. I forget when I talked about this, it might have been. It might have been a tweet to somebody about Bichette moving to third, but there's a ton. There's so many good infielders who move to third and then are just shit. And it's not because they're bad. It's just. It's a completely different game. Like you said, how you. Not only how you prepare for the pitch, but how the pitch is coming off the bat where the hitting zone is relative. So when you're up the middle, everything feels a little deeper to the hitter. You. You feel like it feels more natural because you're used to either being behind or in front of the ball. So you're used to either seeing it from the pitcher standpoint or the hitter standpoint. And so short and second and center are relatively the same of, kind of your perception of the ball. And I would do the same thing. Like when I was playing short, my focus was ascent was on the hitter. And then once the pitcher started, I would kind of shift my focus to the pitcher to get in time, in rhythm with him. And then, you know, in the. In pro ball, it's way easier because you only have, you know, maybe 10 pitchers the whole year who you have to time up. And so by the. By a couple weeks in, you kind of get everyone's rhythm and you're. And you're pretty good with it. But obviously, when you're younger, you could have 20, 30, 40 pitchers. You're trying to time up. So it gets a little tricky. But shifting your focus. The pitcher, once you kind of get in rhythm with him, then it's all in the hitter. And a lot of my stuff was looking at the hitter, and just what was he on time? Was he on time with where I felt like he was on time? Does he feel late to me? Does he feel early, picking up his cues as the pitch is coming in? And obviously when he started attacking the ball, it switched. And when you play a position for so long, your eyes can just know where the hitting zone is, and so immediately just switch the hitting zone. And when you start to make a move, and then it's all just reading the ball after that. But you can watch the pitcher and the hitter and the hitting zone from short because they're all kind of in your field of view, you know, and you just switch what you're paying attention to. When you go to third base, it all changes. You essentially are looking left at the pitcher, and then you have to switch back to the hitting zone. The problem is that you're almost behind the hitter at third, right? So the hitting zone is like two or three feet in front of third, or so people think. And so a lot of people think that the ground balls you get at third are going to be out in front of the hitter. And so either when you move to third, you're either going to. You're either going to keep your shortstop tracking where you're kind of tracking the pitcher, and then as he throws it, you're either going to go and you're going to get messed up where you look at the hitter, or you're going to say, I need to find the hitting zone and you're going to look too far out in front. And that's what a lot of people do, is they look too far in front. When, when, when the Yankees, they would show me depth of contact for third base, and it was actually deeper. And so a lot of balls, you would make contact deeper when you hit it to third, and usually it's because you're late or you were early. And so you try to hold. You try to hold your swing back, and then you're flipping your barrel too quick, and that's what causes the rollover and cause you to roll a third. And so if you're looking out in front for that contact point, you miss it. And so they would actually talk about moving it, moving it back. So, like moving it right in front of the hitter, not too far out in front. You're going to get some out in. But your eyes can adjust to that and you get more, more times than not, if the contact point is out in front, you get a true ground ball versus if the contact point is deeper. Typically they're trying to fight to square up the barrel and so you get more spin and you get more curve on those grounders when it's deeper. So those are the balls you actually want to like prep for. So you will. But getting that down, like the fact that you could do it in one fall is pretty impressive. I mean it takes a while to, to get your brain to kind of switch over and, and it's just crazy. Like something so simple like that where you have a guy that moved over to third and all of a sudden he's missing balls, he's misplaying it, he's picking bad hops. It could just be something as simple as where he's looking and if he changes that all of a sudden he's seeing it better off the bat. He's making better, you know, first step reads, he's getting better hops, he's making more plays. And those are the type of things like that you can't really quantify. You can't really. It's hard to coach it unless you were at that level and had that same mistake or like you where you had to go over there and feel the difference. And that's where I think, you know, a lot of the really good infield coaches have those little cues that, that they can give you that just, that can just flip the switch for somebody. [00:29:02] Speaker A: If you're the parent of a high school baseball player with college aspirations, you already know the recruiting process can feel overwhelming. Endless showcases, non stop emails and big promises with very little clarity. That's why we recommend Diamond College Showcase Camps, the nation's premier academic baseball showcase. At Diamond College showcases, every college coach in attendance is there with a purpose to coach, instruct, evaluate and recruit. Every player is seen, every player is engaged, and every family leaves with a clear understanding of where they truly stand. This is not a mass camp. College coaches run the drills, evaluate every athlete and provide honest professional feedback that you can trust. Diamond College Showcase camps are built for serious student athletes who value both baseball and academics. If you're looking for transparency, clarity and a recruiting experience that respects your time and your players future, Diamond College Showcase is the place to be. To learn more, visit diamond collegeshowcase.com [00:30:04] Speaker B: yeah, it was Sean Moran. He works in the Cardinals organization. He's a scout now and I remember him coming over to Me, because I. I expressed some frustration because I'm like, why am I getting beat on some of these balls? And, like, I was getting bad hops. And it's like, this never happened before, you know, it's like first time you get when it rattles off the heel of your glove and you're like, why did that happen? And I just remember, yeah, showing some frustration. And one of the first questions he asked me, he's like, well, where are your eyes? I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, well, you've played short your whole life. Like, you get the whole picture. [00:30:38] Speaker A: He goes over here. [00:30:38] Speaker B: You don't get the whole picture. And he kind of cued me in, like, hey, you need to get your eyes there. So I was probably getting there early at the start, but that. That transition over there is so much harder than people think. And I remember trying to make decisions on depth, and I used to always default to, like, I'll just get as close as I can get because, like, I can just react. Because I wasn't comfortable with exactly what you were talking about. It's like, most of the ground balls you get in the middle of the field, they tend to be more true, right? And when you're at third, you get the hook spin, and you get the guy who. He gets jammed. But it's not a hook spin. It's actually kind of a side spin ball. And the drop step becomes, like, a really important piece of your fielding technique that you don't usually have to factor in at shortstop. Like, usually when you go glove side, you're not actually going backwards. It's more parallel, or you're trying to cut the angle at short. But at third, like, that first open drop step to the left, like that unlocks your ability to do so much of it. And it's such an unnatural movement if you've played short your whole life. I hated it when I started. I started to fall. That was tough later on, but the angles are different. The timing of your eyes getting into the zone is different. The spin that you see is different. The, like, I rather it would be smashed or let me just go downhill on it and play it on the run. I didn't like anything in between when I first started. Yeah, I just didn't feel like I was comfortable with which. Which angle I need to take and do I need to attack this hop or do I need to give it was. It's a way bigger transition than people think it is. [00:32:15] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think a lot of. A lot of fielders feel that pressure and, like, feel that anxiety at third because it feels like the ball's getting on you quicker. And it is. And you also have less hops than that short. At short, you usually have, you know, four to eight hops that you can pick. So the ball slows down a lot before it gets to you. You have a lot more reads on what the ball's doing. It's a lot more movement based where you have to put yourself in a better position to field it at third. When you go to third, you almost feel like you don't have all the time that you would normally have to read the hops and to move, and you don't. But a lot of guys use that as, okay, I need to go quicker, I need to make a read quicker. You know, all these things that are just counterintuitive where really, when you get to third base, you almost make reads later. So you don't want to be in a position where the ball's hit and you're already charging it. You really want to make sure you're making efficient reads, not really quick reads. And so if you're not. If you're not making efficient reads, you're always going to be in between because you don't have enough hops to. To really get yourself back to where you should be. You don't have enough room or enough time to let your feet kind of get under you and to. And to really rely on your feet to go somewhere where you can make up for a bad decision. And so I think if you pair that with the anxiety and the timing of, okay, I need to make decisions quicker now. You're making decisions quicker and you're not looking in the right spot and you're not seeing the ball off the bat. That's like a recipe for disaster for a fielder. And so it's just learning that you have time. You don't have to move as much at third base. Getting the spin down is super important. At third, anything to your. Anything to the six hole is coming back to you. And just understanding that concept is tough. Right at short, every ball is going away from you. So in the six hole, they're going to hook it and it's going more towards third. If you get a ball up the middle, it's probably going to be inside out, maybe a little bit hooked, but usually true or inside out. So your initial read, you can essentially just go and make it up on the fly. At third base, your balls to your left are hooked, there's balls on the line that are usually true if they're fair. I mean, the, the difference in, in the balls and their reads are just so great that if you're not giving your eyes and your body that extra split second to really make sure you're making the right decision, then you're gonna, you're gonna feel like how you felt. And how I felt when I first started was just like, I don't, I don't even know what to do. I don't know how to correct it. You're just kind of out there hoping he hits one that you don't move on and it's smoked at you or that he hits soft enough where you can kind of play it like a shortstop. But learning that pre pitch of how to get your body ready to move laterally I think is really, really important, especially at third. Just giving you more range and it'll put you in a position where you feel like you're supposed to make your first move to the left or right and not in. And it just gives you that ball, that ball anxiety kind of goes away where you realize, okay, I don't need to go in right away. If it is a ball in and it's chopped, I'm gonna see it off the bat and I'm gonna know it's chopped. But everything else I don't have to go in. So I'm not going to prep my body to do that. [00:35:08] Speaker B: Yeah, man, I could talk about this for hours just like this, the lessons I learned and everything. But I want to get to. There's two, there's two other topics that you wrote on that I think are really important. I'm going to save my favorite one for last because I've, I've gotten into like verbal altercations with people about one of these topics. So we'll get to that one. But you talk about the importance of throwing routine. I think the article is you're probably throwing wrong something, something along those lines. And to lead you into this one because he's a buddy of yours. I remember Cullen Large who you played with. [00:35:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Coming to William and Mary. And obviously he's a really good ball player. He's a fifth round draft pick and he made it to AAA and was, you know, had a, had an accomplished career. [00:35:55] Speaker C: One of the best hitters I've ever seen. I mean he was always hurt in pro ball. But I always tell them, I'm like, you're, you're probably the best hitter that I've ever played with that that didn't make it. And he was just always hurt. But when he played, man, he. He balled out. [00:36:07] Speaker B: He taught me more about hitting than he'll ever realize. We'll get him on the podcast here one of these days. But he did not have any plan to become a better thrower. And I ran into this as a college coach over and over again, is that you'd get really talented infielders, but the piece of the puzzle that was missing is that they didn't spend enough time and they didn't spend enough focus on becoming a really good thrower of the baseball from multiple angles, from different arm slots, like all different kinds of stuff. And I think it's a huge gap with kids because I think the kids go out and they play catch to get loose and they don't play catch to get better. And the idea of it's half the battle as a. As an infielder that you need to be able to get the ball over to first bait accurately. You need to be able to get it over there on time. And it's not just about arm strength as we talked about. And I think this is a real big gap for young infielders is the lack of focus that they put on throwing in a routine and having a plan of how you go about it on a day to day basis and how it's such a low hanging fruit. [00:37:18] Speaker C: It really is. [00:37:19] Speaker B: You can get so good at throwing if you do it for 12 minutes a day and you just have a little bit of focus on what you're trying to do. So I would love for you to. To kind of expand on some of that stuff and maybe some of the stuff that you tried to do and incorporate as you. As you moved up. [00:37:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm super, I'm super passionate about just throwing in general. I think it's one of the things that really let me get to the big leagues. And moving over to third when I did, it's so much more important because it's that much further of a throw, just your average throw across the diamond. And I think like you said, it's not. I think I was a super average player all around, but I kind of pick things that are pretty easy to get really good at. And I think throwing is like the easiest thing to get really good at if you just put a little bit of effort into it. But I think a lot of people think about playing catch and throwing really wrong and it hurts them. It's not anyone's fault, but they just never thought about it the right way before and. And I think I would have been better at it if I was younger today, just because of all of the movement. Like, you know, guys warm ups now are insane. I mean, they're like big league level. At 12 years old, everyone's doing weighted balls. Everyone's getting their body prepped before they even touch a baseball, which is great. And so I don't really think there is. You know, when I was growing up, it was like, go play catch as your warmup. And now everyone's warming up before they even play catch, which I think, you know, that excuse of warming up, I think is gone. And I think if guys just hone into that of, okay, I'm going to warm up and then I'm going to go play catch and make catch, you know, its own thing versus playing catch to warm up, they'd be amazed at how much better they can get at throwing really, really quickly. But, you know, most of what I learned from throwing was from John Chef. And I really, after my days at Maryland, I didn't really change anything about my routine, how I. How I played catch, what I did. I mean, he really taught me everything that I needed to know. And. And he was super passionate about it. And, you know, I called it game catch. You know, there's two things I learned from him. Circle catch and game and game catch. So he didn't call it game catch, but every time we were playing catch, he really wanted you to focus on hitting a target. And it really wasn't to get your focus super dialed in and to, like, really try to see a letter and, like, push the ball there or feel the ball. Like, a lot of the stuff that pitchers talk about, right, where they're trying to guide it into the zone, it was more so, hey, I'm going to pick this target out, and I'm just going to play catch, and I'm just going to keep getting better and putting my body in a position to hit that target more often. And I'm just going to. I'm just going to dial in and really focus on trying to hit that target. And I'm not gonna change anything about my mechanics. All I'm gonna do is I'm gonna throw the ball and see where it goes, and then the next time, I'm gonna try to correct it. And that that shift of, like, you need to somehow throw different or change your mechanics immediately changes to, this is how I throw. I'm gonna get better at throwing as I throw more and I get older. But how I throw today is how I throw today. But what I can figure out is at my normal throw. Where does it go? And can I just repeat that throw every time that I throw the ball? And if I can do that over and over and over again, I'm going to know where my ball goes. And then all, all it is is it comes down to where you're aiming. And so if you have a target that you're trying to hit and you just, and you're just throwing it and you're constantly missing in one direction or another, you're actually probably closer than you think to just having a dialed arm. All you have to do is change where you're aiming. And a lot of guys change their mechanics, are trying to change this, trying to throw it different, and then they're trying to change with their aim. There's a lot of different variables. And what I did was I used long toss to kind of dial in spin on the ball, can I throw it straight, all that type of stuff. I think long toss pitchers, all pitchers use it. It's a great way to just dial in and make sure that you're throwing it somewhat efficiently. Right. Like, you don't have to be at a pitcher status when you're playing the field, but if you can get your arm path in a position where you're spinning the ball good, even if it's tailing a little bit, I think I say in the article, like, I always had tail on my ball, but just knowing that it's there and knowing, knowing where to aim, using it, everyone's ball tails a little bit. But the more you can dial in, you know, your arm path, the spin of the ball, what your ball is doing, and just get super consistent with like, where your ball is going when you let it go. Aiming becomes the only thing you have to worry about. And then if you put a target up and you just really concentrate on hitting that target, all of a sudden you're playing catch and you're, you're hitting guys in the chest all day long and then that's what's going to transition over to the field. If you have to think about your mechanics and like how does, how to throw it, like. And this ball. Did you know I missed 10 different balls at all different areas. And I have to figure out, like, by the time you get in the game, you're going to be screwed, you know. And so really dialing it in that way for me was huge. And Chef talked about a lot. We had game catch, which we would essentially just play to 11 or 21 with a partner, and you picked a spot on them. And every time you hit the spot, it was one. And we would always go, if you hit them right in the face, it's three. But really dialing that in, as simple as it found as it sounds, a lot of guys that would ask me, they weren't even paying attention when they played catch to where they were throwing. It's just like a warmup. And then they would think they're going to get better in a game with, you know, five or seven throws across a diamond. And I'm like, guys, just flip that and focus on catch when it's time to play catch. And then when you go in the game, you just let it eat. And eventually, you know, after months of throwing, your body is going to end up throwing. Like how you do when you play catch. And then when you get on the field, you can really focus on what you should be focusing on, which is, what's the hop? Am I on time? What's the hitter doing? What's the situation? Everything that revolves around getting outs. And then all you have to do is catch the ball and you know your arm is going to take it. And so that's why I'm super passionate about throwing. I think it's super, super easy to get good at. And I saw a stat. What started all of this, and what started that was there's a Twitter account putting out information about how the best defenders have the weakest arms and all of the defense. Then I started thinking about and all of the guys that I knew, even in the big leagues, I mean, you look at Tatis, you look at o', Neill, Cruz, I think is going to the outfield. A lot of guys talk about arm strength from the left side, but anyone with any arm strength is getting moved off of that position. And so there's clearly not a correlation between arm strength and being a good defender on the left side of the infield. And so that's what kind of got my, my brain spinning on. Well, if it's not arm strength, it's something with throwing because there's. There are stats that correlate throwing errors really, really highly with. With guys not being able to play the left side of the infield. And so if it's not the arm strength, then it must be something with. With the arm accuracy. And so that's where. That's where it kind of. It triggered me was, you know, I never had a really strong arm. What I did was I had. I had pretty good throwing mechanics that let me throw a straight ball with some carry, and I was really accurate. And so when I caught it, you were usually out. And a lot of guys, if they caught it, it was 50, 50 after that, if you were out. And so getting just that little tick of an advantage of, okay, I'm so confident that if I catch this ball, you're going to be out. It just frees up your mind in the play to focus on, you know, what you should be focusing on. [00:44:31] Speaker B: I think as a position player, one of the things that you're afforded is that you've got way more bullets in the chamber. Like you can play catch a lot. And I think, I think the kids don't play enough catch. Right. And you know, I'm, I'm older than you. I, you know, I just remember as a kid, like you just, I was always throwing something. [00:44:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:50] Speaker B: Tennis ball rocks and you're always aiming at something. And it was the one thing that I was pretty good at was throwing. And I threw a lot. And I think that was probably why, like, you spend a lot of time throwing a baseball, like to your point, you get to figure out like, hey, when I'm throwing at this distance, I'm trying to get it here. This is what it feels like. And you start, you get some. And the long toss stuff as a coach and Cullen's another good example, so I might have to have him, have him listen to this. But I, I got obsessed for a little bit watching quarterbacks, really good throwers. Not the dudes with the hand cannons, but the guys who were insanely accurate. Right. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees was another one. And their feet and consistently being in good positions with their feet. And I remember when Colin first got there, he was a really wide base thrower and so he had these big deviations of misses. He would spike balls or he would, you know, bring balls high in arm side usually. And I didn't think that he had a ton of awareness to where his feet were. And being able to consistently get in a good position with your feet kind of unlocks everything else to be able to kind of happen lately behind them. But it just kind of comes back to like the wraps. And I think you as an infield, like, you have to really take pride in it. [00:46:20] Speaker C: Yeah, you do. And it's super important. I mean, the getting outs, especially at the big league level is so hard that when a pitcher throws it out, they would always say, when a pitcher throws an out, you got to make an out. Right. And so there's even plays where a pitcher throws a hit and you got to make an out. But especially anytime they throw an out, you have to make an out. And so the only way to do that is just to be super efficient with your throws. And, you know, just. I was always decent on defense, where I was always. I felt like I was always in a spot to just learn from better defenders. And I had a luxury, especially when I was drafted early, to watch, you know, and to practice with guys like Tulo and guys like Simeon and guys that were just super dialed into their practice. And it felt good because I felt like I was. I felt like I was pretty dialed in for the most part. But watching those guys when they're at the top of the game, they have Gold Gloves, they're making millions a year, and they're so dialed in. That was the thing that I noticed. And like you said, when, when, when people don't play enough catch, I think nowadays playing catch is like always high effort and velocity is such a big thing that you can't play a lot of catch versus when I watch a lot of these guys, I think I touched on in the article, but, like, go watch like a major league infield, like in bp, it's as low effort as far as throwing as you're going to see. And it might look the ball still on a line and they're not, they're not lobbing it over. But as far as, like, their effort level is so low and all their focus on is just trying to be as. As efficient as possible and to get the ball over there, trying as little as they need to to just make sure that it gets to the first baseman. And I think that's, like you said, the touch part of it, the feel part of it. Like, what does it feel coming out of my hand? I think throwing, you know, long tossing, but not trying to throw it really hard is a great way to just like, get that feel down. Even in grounders, being able to go at 50, 60, 70% and still be accurate, like your feel is going to go through the roof. And I think now a lot of kids, when they play catch, it's like I'm going to throw all out and I'm going to throw 10 throws to throw harder, and then I'm going to be done. And I think on the defensive side, it's almost the opposite, where you should be able to throw for 20, 30 minutes, just hanging out and talking and, you know, bullshitting with the guys. And that should be almost be your effort level of, okay, I can do this forever. And then when you get in the game, that it's naturally going to speed up. But like I said, once I learned, I always was trying to throw harder. I was always trying to get more arm strength because I felt like it was going to help me get. Make more plays. And it wasn't until I got to New York when they really were putting the numbers in front of me. Like, your. The amount of runs that you save with a strong arm is a minimal. Like, almost zero. And they go, why do you think, like, if it was so important when the hardest throwers just be infielders and it's. It's almost the least important thing, I think. I think timing in your first step is probably the most important thing as far as adding, like, run value to your. To your defense. Just the range that you can get, the hops that you can get to, you can make balls easier. That's probably number one. I would put. I would put, like, your hands and being able to secure the baseball number two. And then I'd probably put throwing accuracy number three. And arm strength probably lasts. And there's so many metrics out there now that back that up. But I feel like when I was coming up, and maybe even today at the lower levels, it almost feels reversed. And so just paying more attention to the things that actually help you on the field could probably do wonders to kids. [00:49:54] Speaker A: Can I say something on this podcast? [00:49:56] Speaker B: Damn right you can. [00:49:57] Speaker C: Hey, Glass. [00:49:59] Speaker A: I wanted to, you know, interject myself into this. This love fest of infield play. I think everything you're saying is gold, but I also think that. [00:50:11] Speaker B: And I. [00:50:12] Speaker A: You could probably extrapolate it out. We don't care about outfielders right now in this discussion, but what you were saying means a ton to catchers as well. I was an average thrower when I got to college. Like, there was no, you know, routine, if you will, when I was coming up in. In high school, unbeknownst to Coach Zorno. Sorry for that, but it was just, you know, like, you threw on the infield and you just, like, threw as hard as you wanted. And, you know, when your arm felt good, like you were done, there was no, like, actual process to what you were doing. And you get to college and there's an actual throwing program and there's. There's reasons behind the things that you do. And then I got into coaching and I stole things from Coach Brady, from the catchers that, you know, that he would have guys do where, you know, you'd be working on plays at the plate with your footwork, and you'd be working on plays tag plays at the plate and you'd be working on throwing balls to second base, you know. But when I got to Maris, when I was playing, like I wasn't an average to below average thrower of the baseball, I could catch and throw, but it was just kind of athleticism based, it wasn't really anything else. And you know, it got to the point where, you know, I tagged Montague and pulled me aside and I essentially was doing like your circle play and gameplay. Like I started doing that. And it's incredible when you have an actual plan as to what you're doing from a warm up standpoint to get loose, it eventually starts to carry over and a game. And from a catching standpoint, the reason I bring it up is like you're never really throwing, especially if, if. And I, I know I went off on this about the, the pop times, but like when you are throwing the bases on steals and such, like generally speaking no one's there, right? Like the shortstop or the second baseman is crashing into second base, the first baseman might be crashing on a back pick or the third baseman's getting over to third on a steal. Very like the only time you're really stationary throwing to somebody to a base is on a bun to first or third and even, even sometimes at third, depending on the type of bump play you're running. Like you might not really be throwing to someone stationary. You're kind of throwing to a target, you know, so like getting that whole mindset of like, okay, like your focus needs to be, you know, I always called it the tag zone when I was coaching. Like I wanted that ball to hit Andy mid thigh high on the first base side of the bag. So that ball's kept caught and tagged. I didn't want to be on the left side, I didn't want to be on the shortstop side of the bag because then as he's running in, he's gonna have to stop his momentum, turn, catch that ball, then start again to come back, right? So like being able to find, you know, playing that, the gameplay at the, at the end where like you're picking out targets to see how many times you can dot that up, it eventually starts to translate over because that, that's, that's really what actually happens in game. I'm not actually really throwing to a glove all the time. I'm pick out a spot that I'm trying to put a baseball in from 127ft away. So that are my shortstop or second baseman can make a play on that ball and But I think it, like, to your guys point, like, I don't think a lot of people do that. I don't think a lot of kids do. But, like, you can get incredibly good at it to the point where, like, I wasn't a big leaguer. I played Division 1 baseball many moons ago. That's why I became really good at throwing BP right? Like, I. And I can, I can go out and play catch right now, and I can maybe not 10 times out of 10, but like 9 times out of 10. I could probably dot you up in the center of your body just because it's. Yeah, I've done it so many times for so long that it's just, it's. It's muscle memory. And I'm not, I'm not trying to cut anything. I'm not trying to. It's just. This is what, this is how I throw with your point, like, with minimal effort, you can do it. And it's, it's the, you know, I would suppose it's the muscle memory training that you're doing, but like, you start to shift your focus of I'm trying to throw to this glove or I'm trying to throw to this person where, like, I'm just trying to throw to a spot. And if I can get it, you know, if I can get my body into. Into a position with my feet and my arms and everything else to get this ball to the spot, I'm gonna have success more times than not. [00:54:28] Speaker C: One thing, one thing I would talk about. Yeah, no, I love it. And one thing that I would talk about with catchers is they would all voice the same thing, right? When I'm throwing to a base, I can see where the base is, but I don't want to throw there. And also where I want to throw, the glove's not there and there's people moving. So what do I do? And the one thing I would play around with catchers, I don't know if you ever heard about this, but I would tell them. So if you're. So you're throwing with a partner, the. When you're looking at your partner with. As a catcher, what I would do every time is I would aim or I would look at their left. Their most left hip. So like almost outside their body to the left at their hip. And when I would throw it, I would want it to go almost to their chest or their head every time. And so aim at the hip or just outside the hip when you're. Anytime. Anytime I throw it at anybody, I'm Gonna look at their left hip and try to throw it there. But I want the ball to end up at their head. And the whole reason is then where you're aiming is the same every time. Whether when you're throwing a third, you want it up to the right like three feet. When you're throwing a second, you want it up to the right like three feet. And so where, where catchers would say they're getting in trouble is, yeah, in catch, I can hit their chest, but then when I go to throw to a base, if I aim at the base, then I'm hitting the base. Right. If you hit it, if you throw it really well, or I need them to get there, or I aim, you know, up the line and there's people moving, the pitcher's moving, I need to make changes. Like, I never know where I'm aiming. And so like, that's a good, that's a good way for catchers to just always have an aim point. And then if you're doing that in catch and your balls are always up to the right three feet, when you go to, when you go throw somebody at third or second, you can just aim right at the base because your muscle memory is going to be up to the right three feet and you don't have to change it. Now all of a sudden, every single throw you make is exactly the same versus saying, okay, I'm going to aim at the pitcher's chest, I'm going to hit the chest, but then at third, I'm going to aim here and throw it here. Like it's just something where you can standardize it. And now all of a sudden you're making 200 throws a day the same exact way, getting better versus making, you know, 60 different throws and only doing it three times a day and really not getting anywhere. [00:56:40] Speaker A: And if you're aiming there and you're hitting high, that, like, that's the carry that you're looking for as a catcher. Yeah, you know, that's, you know, similar at third, it's 127, 3 and 3, 8 of an inch for all of you out there. But like, you want that care. Like you're not trying to throw it to the bag, you're trying to throw it through the bag. So like, you want that carry so that it gives your, it gives your infielder an actual opportunity to catch and tag in that spot. Because, you know, the, the higher you go up, the, the quicker those plays are. Bang, bang. Like, very rarely are you going to be throwing people out buy like Many, many steps, like the high school level. [00:57:20] Speaker C: Sure. [00:57:20] Speaker A: But you get to college, like those are college pros. Like, it's a bang bang play. Like you need to. That's why it's, that's why you have to be good at it. It's why we measure it. But like, they're all inflated wrong. But like, yeah, the point in, in the catch play stuff is to make sure that, like, when you're working on this stuff and you're doing it, it will eventually start to translation, transition into the game. But you just got to be working on the right stuff. [00:57:46] Speaker C: For sure. For sure. [00:57:48] Speaker B: All right, go ahead. [00:57:49] Speaker A: Back to the back of the infield, [00:57:53] Speaker B: Stay in the throne thing. We're talking. I think this will transition into my, my favorite topic of the night. But we all know that you oftentimes don't get to throw completely in rhythm when you're playing in the infield. Right. Different angles. If you're going glove side, backhand side, you might be more over the top. If you're going glove hand side, you might have to, you know, kind of throw from a lower angle coming across the bag. How did you practice that? Or is there anything that you tried to implement into your throwing program to try to take into account some of those throws that are less traditional? [00:58:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:58:29] Speaker C: Well, thanks for bringing it up. Cause I talked about circle catch, but never talked or never really expanded on it. So at Maryland, we would do circle catch and it'd be four, usually four players. Three or four players. And we would literally run in a circle and have to throw it to each other. And so you're probably 20, 30ft apart, but you were running the whole time and you were just throwing in different people. And it taught you so much about angles. You were moving, you're moving in a circle, your teammates are moving and you're changing. Whether you're throwing it in front of you, behind you, you know, next to you. And if you walked by our field, you'd probably think we're nuts. But getting those different angles, learning how to throw in different spots, and you use all of them. Whether you're playing short and you have to throw behind body to make a double play, whether you're at third, running to third base, having to throw back to first, whether you're throwing a second, whether you're at third base, running to the six hole and having to make it throw to second, that was probably one of the best things that Chef made us do. And we all hated it because it was just a two minute drill of running in a circle. But the throws that you had to make and you're right. I think the biggest thing that circle catch teaches you, and I think you can take this into fielding, is as long as your footwork leading into the catch is the same all the time, you're always going to have your feet in a good position to throw. And what I mean by that is when you're fielding, you always want your left foot coming down as you're catching it. And a lot of kids get their left foot down too early and then they catch it and their body is trying to make a move that they're just not ready for or they have to hold up and then they have to restart and their momentum is gone. But when your left foot is coming down as you catch the ball, that's like as good of timing as you can get for for field, like fielding wise. And I think that leads directly into the throw. If you're not on time for the catch, it's going to be really tricky because your momentum is not going to be there, your feet aren't going to be moving when you need it to move. You're not going to sync up your arm with your body. It's just going to lead to all of those things where like I would almost guarantee when Colon was like a wide base, it happens with a lot with a guys with wide bases. But if you're fielding especially and then you're throwing with a wide base, generally you're early on your footwork. And when you're early on your footwork, it's just gonna not be matched. And so if you're early on your footwork into the catch and you just keep it early, you're gonna throw it in the ground because your body's gonna be so ahead, so ahead of it, and your arms are gonna try to play catch up. And then the other way, if your feet are on the ground and you just hold up a tick so that you can maybe try to match it back up, you might get it or you're just gonna be late with your upper half and then it's gonna sa. And so a lot of I think that stuff with the throw can be nailed down. And that's why I think it's like the last thing on the list to really look at your arm. I think it's a lot more of timing. And are you reading the ball? Do you have time? Are you timed up on contact so that you can read the ball and get good hops and that directly impacts are you catching the ball when your left foot lands. And so if you're doing those two things, it's really, really hard to not be in a good position to throw it. But I think they just get overlooked. And then you see a guy who doesn't look at throwing the ball or he's throwing it all over the place, you think it's his arm. And I think that's where separating the catch and being really good at catch. When you're playing catch and then going into fielding, you can really separate them, going, okay, I know my arm is good. It's supposed to be good. If it's good at catch and it's not good in the field, it's probably something to do with my timing, my footwork, how I'm moving. But if you're not paying attention to how you play catch, you're going in the field and you're just. You're clueless. It could be a number of things, and I think, you know, eliminating those variables is super important. [01:02:11] Speaker B: Parents, if you've ever felt overwhelmed trying to navigate youth sports, there's a new resource designed just for you. TeamMatch. TeamMatch is an online platform built to streamline how families find the right youth sports teams by location, sport, and skill level all in one place. It also provides a safe, organized space for kids to share their accomplishments, stats, and highlights, while giving coaches and teams a clear way to connect with athletes who are the right fit. Less searching, less stress, more confidence in the process. Youth sports just got simpler for families. This is Team Match. Check it out today@teammatch sports.com. yeah, and I think we talking about that. I think today's infield play, especially at the youth level, is. It's a lot of drill work, and a lot of it is, for me, is like kind of eyewash. And I think that [01:03:10] Speaker A: I would. [01:03:11] Speaker B: I would encourage young kids to have, like, you should go and do your throwing and do it seriously. But I think there's also a time to, for lack of a better term, like, kind of goof around with it. Like, throw on the run. Like, do a job. [01:03:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:26] Speaker B: Throw from, you know, below your knees. Like, have a little fun with it. Because I think it does a couple things. One, there's a chance that you're gonna have to make that throw at some point. Right. The. On the throw the. On the run, you know, charging. Yeah, you gotta throw from a low slot. Like, you might as well practice it a little bit. But I think it creates some of to what you're talking about. There's a There's still a rhythm to being able to do that, that and you can create that rhythm and you can get a little bit better of an understanding of, well, if I'm going to throw the ball from below my waist, my fingers are going to be underneath it or to the side of it. So we're going to have that different, that different movement. Now I need to know you're talking about aiming points. Well, I'm a shortstop coming in, coming downhill and I'm trying to cut off a ball and I'm going to throw from on the run. Well, if I aim at the first baseman's chest dead center, I'm taking him off the line. You probably creating a collision. But you can learn how the ball moves. You can learn on what do you need to do to get it into the right spot. And I don't see enough kids do that. Like, I actually get a little smile on my face when I watch a kid finish up catch and he does some athletic stuff. It's like, all right, like one, he's having fun doing it. But two, that unlocks some ability that is kind of required if you want to go from pretty good defender to really good defender. [01:04:49] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think, I think that's not touched on enough. Like game catch isn't like a serious catch or super stiff catch or like trying to have the perfect mechanics. It's almost the opposite of trying to make throws that you're going to make in a game and learning like how to use them. So just like you said, I mean, I think throwing with a low arm slot, throwing on the run. I mean you go to these minor, these really good minor league orgs and they're telling guys to do that pre, like pre game, you know, like they're telling guys to get more comfortable with it and you have to. I don't think your catch should be like, you know, I have to throw from this arm slot and be perfect with the ball. I would rather you throw from a different arm slot every single time and trying to figure out where your ball's going because like you said, you're eventually going to get to a spot where no matter how you have to make a throw, oh, you can aim at, you can aim at his chest every single time because you're so used to knowing how your ball moves, where it has to start. The whole reason for the game catch is when you pick out a location. A lot of people think that you're going to pick out a location and you want your ball to start there. So like Okay, I need to get really. If I want to hit him in the chest, I'm going to look, focus really a lot at his chest, and I'm going to try to throw it so that it's going at his chest. Chess when in reality, what you learn and what I was trying to emphasize in the article is when you throw out the chest, you just want the ball to end up there. And so if you're throwing it from a low arm slot or you're throwing it from farther away or closer, if you just end up learning what your ball does, what it's going to do, where you need. You're subconsciously going to start aiming where you have to aim to have your ball finish at the chest. And you don't have to do all of these crazy angles. And when you're running to the right, I need to aim four feet to the left. Well, what if I'm really far to my right now my. Now my vision's off. So now is it still 4ft or is 8ft? Like, trying to do that in the game is impossible. But if you know what your throw and what your ball is going to do when you get in the game, all you're worrying about is throwing it in the area that he's in. And your body is going to know how to manipulate your starting point based on where your arm is, where your feet are, speed of the runner, speed of the ball, all that type of stuff. And so that's where I think you're dead on is when you're playing catch, you need to have all of those variables changing so that you learn. Okay, you know, one throw I can make at my knees and really under the ball, and I can still hit him in the chest. The next throw I can just make a normal throw and hit him in the chest. The next throw I could do a spin throw and still hit him in the chest. You know, it's. That's the level you want to get to. Throwing it from over the top with a perfect, you know, two crow hop motion just doesn't do anything for you when you're in the field, you know. And so I think that's super important is to. Is to be athletic and to have fun with it because there is going to be a point in the game where you have to make that throw. And all the, all the tough plays in the game, you have to make crazy throws, right? You have to. Whether it's picking something, picking a ball, whether it's spinning, whatever it is, like the throw is not going to be normal or won't make the play cool. So to make cool plays, you're going to have to be comfortable throwing really awkwardly and weirdly and converting the out. And so you kind of. You have to do that in practice. You're not going to be able to just throw over the top and then all of a sudden go in the game and do a Derek Jeter jump throw. It just. It's not going to work like that. [01:08:00] Speaker A: That. [01:08:02] Speaker B: Which brings me to my last point. Rarely do things line up perfectly. And we hear this often of get in front of the ball, get in front of the ball, get in front of the ball. Talk to us a little bit about why that might not necessarily be the best message. [01:08:21] Speaker C: I think. I think it's the most misunderstood part of fielding. And I think a lot of young instructors or just coaches of young kids that haven't been around the game a lot are trying to do the right thing, but they're just making it infinitely harder on the kids. And my parents, my parents and coaches did the same thing. Like, it's just. It is what it is and you got to outgrow it. But as you move up the levels, you realize how much easier everything would have been if you just didn't get in front of the ball. And if parents didn't think that kids that don't get in front of the ball are scared of the ball or doing anything like that, I. It might be the case for some kids, but your athletic kids and kids that can play catch and can catch the ball, their eyes and their brain are going to tell them to do something that is the most natural to them, that's going to help them the most. And I think it gets, it gets taught out of everybody. And I think it's for everybody's. It's not good for. For any fielder. And people think I'm crazy. Until I wrote that article on it, and then everyone was. Was messaging me saying, it makes so much sense now, but it doesn't sound right. It sounds weird to say, but everything about getting behind the ball makes it harder to field balls and makes you a worse defender. And, you know, it starts with your eyes. I mean, lining up directly behind the ball and trying to read the hop is almost impossible. You know, you can't see height, you can't see width of the grounder. It's really hard to see spin. You can't see if something changes whether it hit a lip, whether, you know, it's hitting a soft spot in the grass. Like, there's so Many things. You can't really tell the speed of it. It's like when something's coming right at you or someone throws a ball right at you and you're not paying attention, it kind of startles you, right, like you can't tell. Depth perception and getting your eyes in a good position and fielding is the only thing that matters. You know, you need to be able to see the ball. Everyone's going to make the routine play, but the ball, where it comes off the bat, weird. And the first, the first hop is weird. Or maybe it hits the dirt or right on the dirt in the grass. And you really have to be able to read that to know what route to take. Or something kicks up on the infield and you need to be able to see that all of these little things that affect the hop that you're going to play, how you're going to play through the ball, what bounce you're going to catch it on, how the throw is, you know, where the runner's at, all of these things. If you're behind the ball, it makes it impossible for your eyes. So like my, my, my thesis is that, that kids brains are a lot more advanced than you think they are. As far as this is a really hard thing coming at me and I want to make sure that I catch it. And so I'm going to stay to the side of it so that I can see it. And I think a lot of kids brains work like that. And if we just let them be, they would be astronomically better fielders because they're going to see the ball better, they're going to see the hops better. They're actually going to be able to take in the information that big leaguers do. Any pro, any pro infielder, the first thing they tell you is if a ball's hit at you to get out of the way of it, right? Like you'd never want to be right behind the ball if the ball's hit right at you. The first thing they tell you is to get to the right of it. Like get outside of the ball path so that you can see kind of what's going on with it. Similar to like when, when someone throws a slider at your front hip, right? Like when it's right at you, it's really hard to tell how far it is from you, the speed of it, and you can get guys to pop pretty easy. If you throw me a slider outside where I'm at the side and I'm at an angle, I can tell what it's going to do all day. I can see the spin. I know where it's going to end up. That's why these sweepers were such a big deal. Because when you throw a sweeper, it starts off closer to you, so it makes it harder to read spin initially. And then it breaks more than you think, but you can't tell. And the sweeper also takes some, some of the time away, so it takes more time to get to home. So when the sweeper originally starts at you, you think it's going to be closer to you than it is and not break as much. And it does the opposite. [01:12:11] Speaker B: It. [01:12:11] Speaker C: And so for a while, your eyes had to adjust to that and now guys are, guys are obviously just getting more comfortable with it. But it's the same logic of just how your eyes interact with the ball. Being on the side of it is just so huge. And then, you know, just when you're going to actually field it. Just the variability you have with one hand versus using two hands to be able to play through balls, be able to adjust to hops, all of those things with one hand, it's just so much easier now. I get it, you know? Well, I think when kids are early, early on too, you know, coaches are trying to make it so the ball doesn't go through their legs or it doesn't take a bad hop and go into the outfield because it's an inside the parker or whatever it is, but it's really to the detriment of the fielder if you bobble a ball as you get older. Like, the guy's safe, right? And so how can I field more balls? How can I secure more balls and convert outs? It's by being on the side of the ball and using one hand. I mean, the, the, the stats just prove it day in and day out. And so if that's what they say at the bigger, at the, at the better levels, like, I wouldn't really train a younger kid. And younger could be in little league or in high school, but I wouldn't trade a younger kid just to be okay, well, if this ball takes a bad hopper, if you don't play it well, I want it to hit your chest, so you have to be in front of it. It just kind of feels like you're, you're inevitably waiting for an error versus, hey, I just want you to go out and make more plays. Like if you make an error, you make an error, but it's not going to be because you're sitting behind the ball and you block it with your chest. I want you to be able to get more balls, secure more balls and make more outs. And so when you kind of line up all of those things, you're like, okay, I don't really see a positive. Maybe the only positive is if, if you misplay it, it hits your chest and the ball's still in front of you. But I want to be a better defender where I'm just securing everything and I'm catching everything and all I have to do is throw it. And so I'm not really going to, you know, mold my game around a what if or mold my game around, you know, being unsuccessful. I would rather give me an advantage to every single ball, be able to see it better, play through it better, secure more and make more outs. [01:14:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I don't really have a ton more to add to that. Like it, it, like when you unpack it and you really start to think about it like the one hand being able to, to actually see the length of a hop. And you know, you're talking about the skid hop, you're talking about the, the soft hop and you know, it just gives you the opportunity to see more. And you know, the two hand thing always broke me especially you see people like an outfielder or drop a fly ball, they're like, use two hands. It's like he didn't drop it because he didn't use his other hand. [01:14:49] Speaker C: Right? [01:14:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I think you could probably make an argument that it's actually detrimental to use use two hands especially. [01:14:56] Speaker C: I'll tell you, with the Yankees, they told outfielders to not, to not, not use two hands and to be beside the ball every time. Now they want you to catch it high, right? Like, they want you to catch it high and to, and to be behind it, like behind it this way. But any, anything that doesn't keep your glove in front of your eyes where you can just at least see some some sort of like, perception of the ball. Like that's what they were literally teaching. And so it's funny, it's, it's changing at the highest level to understanding that the brain plays a big role in this. And like, you don't have to understand the brain by any means. All you have to understand is that if you're on the side of the ball, you see it way better than if you're directly behind it. And then it starts to make sense. [01:15:40] Speaker B: Yeah, the, the idea of like, we'll stay in front of it because then if it hits you in the chest, you can still throw them out to your point, the higher you go up, if you don't catch, you get to college. Unless you're playing third base and some dude just hits a freaking Scud missile at you and hits you in the heel and goes off your chest. Like, if you're playing shortstop and it. You don't catch it clean, it's probably not going to be an out. [01:16:04] Speaker C: No. And honestly, the thing that I say, too, is when guys talk about being behind or staying behind the ball, they're usually almost to the. To the left of it, right? Like, I can play stuff one hand and stay to the side of the ball, and if the ball comes up off my glove, it's going to hit me in my. In my left chest, right? Like, I don't want it hitting my center. But I also don't want, you know, I'm not saying to play it where if you miss it, it's going off your left shoulder. Like, being to the side of the ball and playing with one hand. If it comes up your arm many times, where a ball gets, you know, jammed up and I'm catching it, like, in my elbow, you know, So I feel like, you know, when I'm saying, get. Don't get behind the ball, it's not like, feel that, you know, fielding everything over to the side, it's just. [01:16:44] Speaker B: Just you're not right in it, where. [01:16:49] Speaker C: Yeah, you just. It's so important to keep the ball on the left side of your body when you're playing infield that telling kids to get behind it, it always shifts the ball, like, to the right, like always. And. And then over here, your hands are just so. So like, jacked up and you can't. Your mobility is so bad that just saying don't get in front of the ball. And the state of the right of it, it just frees kids up when they go, oh, like, I don't think, you know, I can go to the. I can go to the right and get behind it and then come back through it and it's fine. Or if I can't get all the way over there, I can do it backhand. I mean, it just. It frees guys up more than saying, you have to get behind this ball. Like, you have to get behind it. A lot of times you overrun everything, right? Like, if you say, get behind the ball to your forehand, you're gonna bust your ass to get behind it where you're gonna overrun it, and now all of a sudden you're playing it back, and now, you know, it's a Weird, awkward play and you have no momentum to first. Same thing on, like the right side. You know you're gonna overplay it and take that banana cut, take a really bad angle to a backhand, get really behind it to try to come through it. You just wasted so much time and have so much more distance now to cover the first base where if you just say keep it on your left side of your body, it just. I feel like it just frees kids up and then you see them making plays and picking better hops and you didn't even, you didn't even do anything. You just told them to stay on the side of it so that their body can work the way it's designed to. [01:18:07] Speaker A: I love it. I love it. [01:18:11] Speaker B: Coach Glass, you got anything you want to add to the conversation? [01:18:16] Speaker A: Not now. It's a high level TED Talk there that. I was just a passenger on this. This vehicle. I had Chime in earlier. I wanted people to know that I was still here. [01:18:34] Speaker B: We're going to get an in depth catch and talk one of these days. And I'll be on the other side just being like, okay, I'll listen, I'll learn. [01:18:40] Speaker A: When we have outfield play, that'll be, yeah, good luck. [01:18:47] Speaker B: We'll do six and a half minutes. [01:18:49] Speaker A: Oh, there's a ball. Catch it. [01:18:50] Speaker B: Hey. Your job is to get the ball into the guys that we want to actually have the ball in their hand. [01:18:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:57] Speaker C: There's a reason you're not in the dirt. There's a reason dirt goes to grass. You know, this is so terrible for [01:19:02] Speaker A: me to say on here, but I used to legitimately tell my outfielders, I'm like, think of it as a game of hot potato. I don't want this ball in your hand any longer than it needs to be. I need you to get it back to the guys that are a tad bit more athletic and they're playing in the infield. [01:19:15] Speaker B: Nothing good happens if the ball is on the grass. [01:19:19] Speaker C: No, no. It's funny, though. It's funny you say that Glass conversation, because when I feel like in college and high school, all guys wanted. The outfielders wanted the ball in their hands to, like, make a throw. So coaches were always like, all right, get the ball out. Like, get it to the infielders. Get it to the infielders. And then you get to the big leagues and no one wants the ball. All the outfielders are like, kev, get your ass out there. Like, dude, like, it was hilarious. [01:19:43] Speaker B: Get. [01:19:44] Speaker C: Get your ass out there. Dude. I don't want to be throwing this thing. I'm. I'm getting rid of it. You make like they just don't want to be a part of it because they've just heard enough by that time where they're like, dude, dude, I'm gonna run to the ball and I'm just gonna throw it in as fast as I can. Just get your ass out here so that you can make the decision. And it's great. It's hilarious how it switches so fast when. When people learn and. And they learn that, oh, well, I just, you know, I just threw it in and they can make the decision for themselves, and then we get in trouble, you know? [01:20:10] Speaker A: Yep. You don't need to. I'm paying you to play in the middle of the field to make the decision and throw the ball. Yeah, you tell them all the time. Richard Trump all the time. It is hot potato, dude. Don't hold on to it. Just get it and throw it. I will adjust based off of where the ball's thrown. Just. Yeah, I don't care where. Just. Just get it in. It's 302 down the line here. If we can't throw it into the infield, then we have a problem. [01:20:35] Speaker C: I will say that is, I will say if I was. If I was like a college or high school coach, I would definitely have that in my. In my relay routines of. We would do it at Maryland where they would just put balls, like, on the wall. It's like scatter balls all around the wall and just have the outfielder run there. And once they get to the ball, just practice throwing in as quick as they can. And it's crazy because when the third base coach sees the ball coming in, they immediately stop sending guys. Most of the time, if you throw it in quicker and it's like off target, your shortstop can get there where they're going to cut it off. Right. As long as it's not outrageously bad. But only good things can happen if you get to the ball and immediately throw it in. If you get to the ball and you're going to curl, hop, or you're going to do anything, only bad stuff probably going to overthrow them. Everyone's still running. The third base coach is sending everybody. It puts pressure on everybody else. They would always say, just put the pressure on the infielder. And. And it's better because as the infielder, when you see someone running to a ball, they get there and they just huck it as fast as they can. You know, you have so much more time and you know that everyone now in the infield is like, okay, can we keep running? Where's the, where's the throw? Is it. Is it close enough where he can catch it? And then just that doubt everyone just step foots on the brakes, you know, I can't tell you how many times we would do it with the Blue Jays where they like, just throw it and how many times they would hold guys up. The ball would go sailing over my head, but the play is just dead and nothing can happen, you know? And so if there are high school or college coaches out there, I would just, I would give your outfielders like one or two days and just say you're just gonna get to this ball as fast as you can. Not. Not outrageous. Where you're just like throwing in the stands, but just turn around and just throw it where you think the guy is supposed to be. And I mean, I think it's in a work world of wonders for guys and infielders because now you get to throw people out. [01:22:27] Speaker B: If the ball is on the way to an infielder, things stop. [01:22:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's a low percentage throw from the right field corner, if you will, but like, the second that you see that, that ball is coming back, redirected back in. And as a third base coach, like, you're depending on how you coach third. Like, I would always get super deep, but, like, if I see that ball coming into the right field corner and the infields lined up, like, I'm likely throwing the brakes on real quick. It's like, oh, that ball's in. Like, that's a, that's a higher percentage throw. Now if I think that they can't make the throw, then I might wheel. But at the same time, like, nine times out of ten, I'm probably throwing the brakes on just saying, like, yo, we got second and third with one out. I'll live here versus getting thrown out at the plate. Yeah, when you do it as you do it for a long time, it's all percentages, but still, like, the second you see that ball coming back in, like, it's like, oh, okay. Like the. This, this merry go round is going to stop real quick because I. Yeah, I can't. This is a low percentage throw or, you know, this is a low percentage send. I'm not, I'm not running ourselves into an out here. [01:23:36] Speaker C: Yeah. I think what it also does too, for the defense is for your infielders. They're going to have to really get into position early. And if you tell your outfielders, hey, this is where the shortstop should be. And so your shortstop goes, okay, my left fielder is going to run to this ball and throw it where I should be. I better be there. It just helps everybody get into the right spot. And now all of a sudden, outfielders don't feel like they have to go, turn, see where they are, throw it. It's like, no, I'm going to throw it where the. Where the shortstop should be. And he's going to be there because that's the only place that I throw. Just sync up a lot better, and your infielder is going to know exactly where to go and the ball sitting, the gap or down the line and there's a play at the plate. Your infielders are going to start thinking, okay, he's going to get to the ball and throw it pretty quick. I should. I got to get. I got to get lined up. I can't just lollygag over there and expect him to figure out where I am. I feel like it just kind of links everything together a little bit better. [01:24:30] Speaker A: I think it puts you in better position on those double cups, too, you know what I mean? Because that if they just turn and burn, you're out. If it's gonna sail your head like that, your second baseman's trailing, they're gonna be far enough away, you know where when, like when everyone holds the ball and like, we generally get a tad bit too compressed on the. On the double cut there where like, if they turn and burn. All right, it sailed me, but he's 30ft behind me. It's gonna hit him in his chest. He can turn and go. And it's. [01:25:00] Speaker C: Yeah, and it stops. [01:25:03] Speaker A: There's more flow to it. And then, you know, obviously you can adjust based off of your field, but I feel like. Same thing. Like, if the second baseman goes out in the right field, like, you can turn and burn, and depending on the arm that's in, right. You. It doesn't. You. You kind of have an idea of where you're going to be based off of his arm strength and where you're going to be. So. [01:25:22] Speaker B: You know what I mean? [01:25:22] Speaker A: Like, you're not going to get too rest or you're not going to get too deep. You're generally going to find yourself in a pretty good spot to be able to turn and go. [01:25:29] Speaker C: Yeah. And the out peelers don't have. They generally can't overthrow you because they're just. They're running the ball and they get one step and they throw it. So they're generally going to miss lower. And so you don't get those like, over sales where they go pick it up and then they like crow hop four times and they are trying to throw it 100 at your chest and they overthrow you. It's. It's just so much easier. I feel like the. It gets less sporadic. As an infielder, you kind of know what everyone's arm is. And all right, they're going to run here and they're going to throw it like that every time. I kind of know where it's going to be. And so I feel like it just helps. Helps them not overthrow it. It helps the infielder get in the right spot. And it just puts a lot more pressure on whoever's sending guys and stuff. Just stop. Even. Even on. On, like, long singles. Like just having an outfielder who plays it somewhat like an infielder, where they just pick the ball up and throw it in. It could be 67 miles an hour. But when you're running around first and you see the ball coming in, everyone stops. Like, it's just. Everybody stops. So there's. There's always, always benefits on getting it in quicker. I never really see benefits on holding it longer. [01:26:37] Speaker A: I would be remiss to say when we were relaying balls in fielders, we're turning glove side. Don't catch the ball and turn to your throwing arm side. It's going to be slower. Turn club side. My two cents on this infield play tonight. [01:26:51] Speaker C: It's true. Stay to the right side catch. [01:26:54] Speaker A: A lot of people do it. Andy, Kevin, I see it. It. They do. Don't turn throwing arm side. [01:27:00] Speaker C: No. [01:27:01] Speaker B: Well, Kev, this is a blast. [01:27:04] Speaker C: I hope one day with you guys. [01:27:06] Speaker B: I hope. I hope I get to have a catch with you one day. We can. We can have. [01:27:11] Speaker C: Not as good. It's not as good as it once was. [01:27:12] Speaker B: Me, me, you and Keith can do circle catch. [01:27:16] Speaker A: That'll be fun. [01:27:17] Speaker C: We have to film [01:27:21] Speaker A: that. [01:27:23] Speaker B: All right, well, for those of you listen for this long, make sure you go check out what Kevro on Twitter. The articles are awesome. [01:27:33] Speaker A: It's in the vault. [01:27:34] Speaker B: Is that correct? [01:27:35] Speaker C: Yeah, the vault. I think my next one is going to be on the. The automated balls and strikes system as I played in it for like four years in the minors. So I feel like I should put something out about it. [01:27:46] Speaker B: I'll be reading that. I read them as soon as you post them. So I'm interesting. [01:27:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:27:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:51] Speaker C: But fun. Yeah. And if anyone has any questions, just. I get. I get messages all the Time about different topics. And so I kind of have them. That's why I call them the Vault. When I was playing, I kind of put all the questions in. In my notes, and I just kind of slowly get through them. But it's been fun. [01:28:07] Speaker B: Yeah, man, I enjoy it. And you, you got away with words, too. So I don't know if you're an English major, but you're a good writer. [01:28:14] Speaker C: I hated English. I'm a math guy, but. Or anything baseball, I'm okay. Anything outside of that, I'd rather watch Glass Duke Circle catch. [01:28:28] Speaker A: It'll be a sight to see, babe. I'm still a little spry at 39, you know, I can. I can get out there and mix it up. It's not going to be as good as it once was, but that's all right. [01:28:36] Speaker B: I threw snowball. [01:28:38] Speaker A: I ain't scared. [01:28:38] Speaker B: I threw snowballs at a tree for about 10 minutes two weeks ago, and I couldn't lift my arm for about three days. But we can get back in shape pretty quick. [01:28:46] Speaker C: There you go. [01:28:47] Speaker A: So I'll have some topics for you because Walker has to work on it. I'm gonna sound like a wild dad. Like, we have to work on our catch play. We actually had this. We had this discussion tonight. We were throwing, and I was throwing balls like mini pop flies, and he kept leaving his feet to catch him. I'm like, dude, you can't leave your feet and try to catch a ball coming down. [01:29:07] Speaker C: Did you, Robin, dude, robbing it. [01:29:09] Speaker A: Trying to talk to a four year old. Trying to talk a four year old through that is like. Like trying to explain quantum physics. He's like, wow, this is how I catch. I was like, that's not how we catch. We're never going to catch like that. We're not going to jump. Will you stop? Like, I'm just. When we can get outside, we'll. We'll do a bit. We. We'll really work on that this summer. [01:29:29] Speaker C: Put him on a chair. You got to put him on a chair. Then he can't jump and just throw. [01:29:32] Speaker B: That's true. That's true. [01:29:34] Speaker A: He's really good. [01:29:35] Speaker B: He can. [01:29:36] Speaker A: He can field ground balls. We're. We're so. We're. We're working our way there. [01:29:40] Speaker B: All right, well, Kev, appreciate your time, man. I'm sure we'll have you on here again at some point, but. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you, everybody for listening. Tune in next week. [01:29:53] Speaker A: Thanks, everybody. [01:29:56] Speaker B: Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and smash that like button for us. Check us out on Apple Podcasts. Go Google Podcasts as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram MD Baseball if you want to find out what me and Keith do to help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check us out on emdbaseball.com take a few minutes to check out our new online academy. I promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening. Check in with you next week. [01:30:31] Speaker C: You. [01:30:36] Speaker B: Just watch.