Episode 137: Youth Baseball PSA

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, parents and coaches, are your kids using the right glove? The most important skill for youth athletes to learn is how to play proper catch. The problem is most youth gloves are made with bad leather and are too big for small hands. They actually make it harder to play catch. That's why former Major League Baseball shortstop Kevin Smith created Cali Gloves. Cali gloves are crafted from 100% Japanese kip leather and are the perfect size for kids. All Cali gloves come with palm slits, finger loops and elastic wrist lacing that encourage proper hand placement. The right closing patterns and give kids more confidence to go make plays. Cali gloves even allow parents to break in the glove without stretching out the fit. It's the glove Kevin wishes he had growing up and the glove all his teammates want for their kids. Visit caligloves.com to learn more and help your kids play better catch. That's Cali Gloves. K a l I gloves.com. [00:01:10] Speaker B: Welcome to this week's edition of in the Clubhouse with EMV Baseball. I'm Andy Kittis. Joined me, my wonderful co host Keith Glasser. How we doing? [00:01:18] Speaker A: Great. How are you? [00:01:20] Speaker B: Good. I'm going to talk about youth sports for a few minutes here. So obviously a lot going on and I, I don't know if we, we were just talking about this, but I, I don't know if we've ever really dove into this too much and we could probably talk on this for hours, but we'll try to keep this somewhat succinct. But it's interesting. You see stuff on social media and you see some, some people of significant note when you're talking about professional athletes, whether it's Jeff Francor, whether it's Greg Olson who's pretty vocal on this kind of stuff. Jeff Teague recently spoke about it. I've heard Carmelo Anthony talking about youth sports broadly. You know, we'll try to bring this back to baseball, but I think that the core of, of the message from a lot of these guys is is that no decisions on how good your kid is going to be are ever made at 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. And I think that a lot of times, and this is probably a parent issue, to be honest with you, and I hope to not be this parent when my son's old enough to do this, slap me around if I am. Keith, you, you know better. But we get so invested in like what the future of the kid is that you lose sight of the things that are really important when they're like 10, 11, 12, 13 years old, which is make sure that they enjoy showing up every day. Make sure that they're playing a bunch so they continue to develop and do everything you can to ensure that they're having fun doing it. Because when you're 12, 13 years old, like some kids have grown, some kids haven't grown, like rarely is the best 12 year old the best 18 year old. Just like rarely. And we were talking about this, rarely is the best 18 year old the best 22 year old. Development happens at different rates. Personality traits drive a lot of this development. And I think what we're seeing in youth sports is this like wild over commitment to travel and being on the elite team and in losing sight of just making sure your kid enjoys showing up to the field. Go get them ice cream after the game, like make sure they're having fun. And don't make it a, don't make it a business for the kids because if you do it at 10, 11, 12 years old, like eventually you're just going to wear them out and they're not going to want to play. And you know, Jeff Teague mentioned this the other day, one of his podcasts. By the way, if you don't listen to Jeff, he's absolutely hilarious, but he's got some wonderful stories about the NBA and, but one of the things he was talking about is youth sports. And I'll paraphrase but basically said like, why are kids from Atlanta going up to Baltimore at 12 years old to play the teams from Baltimore? It doesn't make any sense. Like stay local, play your games, have fun, teach them how to pass, teach them how to dribble, teach them how to play as a team. Like teach them how to do that stuff. And as they get older, they'll figure out how to do some of the other stuff, you know, be able to shoot because they're stronger. And I don't think it's any different for baseball. You're 10, 11, 12 years old. Like, my personal opinion is you shouldn't pro, you probably shouldn't be leaving your state to go and play baseball. Now I know we got borders and you know, if you're in Virginia, you can go play in Maryland, or if you're in Massachusetts, you can go play in New York State or whatever. But you know, seeing teams travel to Texas at 11 years old to go play in a tournament with 60 teams, like, I guess if that's what you want to do, I guess there's no reason not to. But my opinion, I think you're, you're over complicating the stage of development that really just needs to be about the kids having a good time and the kids being focused on trying to get better and learning how to play the game effectively. So that's my, is my opening, opening statement on this particular topic. Coach. [00:05:26] Speaker A: Wonderful. [00:05:27] Speaker B: What do you got? [00:05:28] Speaker A: We had a pause there. We had some, some noise going on here in the Glasser household. You know, I think we've touched on this quite a bit in, in a number of podcasts we've talked about. And I don't think it can go understated how, how little college coaches and scouts care what you do at the youth level. A, because baseball is A, you know, incredibly difficult. B, this is a unique sport where everyone develops at a very different time frame. You know, it's not necessarily like football where if you want to go play, you know, high end Division 1 football, you probably got to be uber physical and run like a 44 to be a running back. Like, you don't have to be a guy to go play Division 1 baseball. That's 6 foot 6 and is 94 to 97. Like you could be a dude who can spin it and do some outlier stuff and still find a spot somewhere. But you know, I think the one thing and I, you know, my wife had sent me something the other day and I shared it with you that I think is very true is that, you know, you have a number of professional scouts at all levels, you know, not just baseball, but baseball, football, hoops, hockey, where they like, they miss all the time on guys. And we've talked about here, on here from a recruiting standpoint that if you, you know, if you're hitting at 50%, you're feeling really good about yourself, where 50% of your class is living up to or exceeding the expectations in which you thought that they were going to be at. And for some reason at the youth level, we believe that we can identify 6, 7, 8 year olds that are going to be really good for the next 10, 11, 12, 13 years. And there's too many variables. There's too many things that go on. You know, puberty is a real thing that happens, you know, and I, I think that we're doing a detriment in the youth game, especially for baseball, where kids at the, the youth level are playing way too many games. And it's designed like, you know, you have seven year old travel teams that are playing 30, 40 games. You know, you have 11 and 12 year olds that are playing 4,550 games. You know, you get the college at the Division 3 level. 40 is your max. You know, and then you wonder why these kids have arm injuries. And we wonder why when they get older they have these issues. Right. Like, you know, I do think in some regard, yeah, like not shutting down and doing the things it is that that high school kids are doing nowadays is a detriment in our game. But I also think that it starts at the youth level with the amount of games they played, you know, and not to sound old, but you and I didn't grow up in an era of youth travel sports. Correct me if I'm wrong. Were you on a 7U travel team that I am unaware about in Great Barrington, Massachusetts? [00:08:34] Speaker B: No. We had a four team Little League. Right. [00:08:37] Speaker A: That's what I'm driving at here in. [00:08:39] Speaker B: The huge population that's southern Berkshire county. [00:08:44] Speaker A: Now we might add a little bit more in southern Rensselaer county of New York, but we had like 12. You played 15 games and then that was it. Like Little League was over. Maybe you made the all star team, maybe you played a couple more games, but you weren't doing anything absurd and playing, you know, a ton of games. And then, you know, I didn't, I didn't play, quote, unquote, travel baseball until I was 16. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and it's not to say that, you know, what we did and to sound old that, like what we did and it was better and, you know, I'm the old man yelling at the clouds, but there was a reason behind it. And like, you didn't play as many games and you didn't travel nearly as much. And then when you were, you know, it kind of worked under the system of if you were good enough, you went and played for a travel team and then traveled around and played against better players to see how good you were. Right. Like nowadays it's any Tom, Dick and Harry can start a summer team and go play in every tournament and Diamond Nation Baseball Heaven and NABC here in the Northeast. So, you know, there's like, just because you're, you know, you're not necessarily taking some of the best players. And listen, the truth is we've all been to those tournaments and there's teams on there that, you know, that you don't have to go see. Like, you know who they are. You've never seen them. You know, you watch them play catch, you do it. And it's like, I don't have to watch this team at all. Like, and that's the reality. And I think that there's you know, we have a number of, you know, you're probably right with parents, but even with kids who think that, you know, this is an attainable goal and this is what I should be doing. If you don't want to play college baseball, you shouldn't be playing travel baseball. Like, that's just, I believe that you're just, you're just throwing money away for whatever. Like, go play Babe Ruth baseball. [00:10:52] Speaker B: It's fine. [00:10:53] Speaker A: Play with your friends, Have a blast. Have fun stories that you can tell your friends when you're older. But like, if this isn't something that you really want to do, don't spend your money on it, you know, and if it is something you want to do, save your money on the front end. Stop traveling when you're 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years old. Like, it's literally irrelevant. There's not a college coach in the country that you might sit down in front of in five years and be like, tell me about how good you were when you were 10. I'm, I am really, really interested in how good you were when you were 11. How many home run derbies did you win at 11 years old? Because that's what I recruit 11 year old home run Derby champions at the Ocean City beach blowout classic on June 26th of 2021. That's, that's what I care about. Like, not no one cares about it. And like, listen, like, good on you for winning, for doing that stuff and wanting to do it. Like, if you want to use it as a tool to compete and get yourself better, sure. But make no mistake about it, like, no one is actually going to care about any tournament that you won pre 15 years old, don't care like that. And that's just the reality. And there's a lot of people out there that believe that this stuff matters in the recruiting process and this stuff matters here. Like, there's people when I was coaching that would sit in my office, be like, well, you know, at 11, we won the, you know, cracking the Crab tournament down in Maryland. Like, okay, I, I don't care. Like, it doesn't matter to me. And it's, it's funny because I think when you, when you get caught up in it, you like, you think all of that stuff matters, you know, and I think that a good portion of, and I would argue that the, you know, the higher the level that parents have played regardless of sport, right? Like, if my son ends up playing soccer, like, I don't know anything about soccer other than I watched the Premier League with you and Eric. Like, I don't really know much about it, but like, you know, I don't know that I would be overly like, enthusiastic about doing all this stuff at the youth soccer level. If he's like, my son's eight. Like, I don't know how good he's gonna be. He's fast for a four year old, but like, that could end real quick. [00:13:21] Speaker B: The fastest 4 year old in this kindergarten, sure. [00:13:24] Speaker A: But like, that's not gonna get him recruited. That's not gonna get him anywhere. I don't know what that means. Like, he's four. I just want him to have fun, you know. And you know, we've, you and I talked about this. Like, I don't, it's why we didn't put him in T ball this year. Like, and not to pat my son's back, but like, he hasn't hit off a tee since he's 18 months old. Like, he's going to go play T ball and be like, yo, this is boring. What am I doing? Someone throw me a ball. And he's not going to want to do it. And I don't want that. Like, I want him to enjoy the game. I want him to have fun. I want him to stay in it for as long as he possibly can. Like, I don't, don't want to get caught up in this. You know, we're going to travel. Like, it's not going to happen. I will tell you right now, my wife and I didn't have this conversation a billion times. Like, it's not going to happen. Like, I don't care. It's like there is no travel in my son's future until he's old enough to really be able to do it. And I think the other side of it too is like, what's important from, you know, a family perspective. And this is getting deep. But at the same time, like, I want my son to enjoy being able to go on a vacation when he's 6 and 8 and 12, you know, and not worry about missing the baseball game. And you know, Johnny the coach is giving me crap because we're going on vacation. Like, hey man, this is a 12U tournament. Like, we ain't no one signing a professional contract here. Like, no one cares. Like, I know you care and you know, and people pump it up, right? Like this is about commitment and it's is about the, like at 12. Nah, you know, dad, I don't know. I, like, it's hard for me sometimes to really wrap my mind around that. And I've been around it a little bit, and I think sometimes that you have, you know, especially nowadays, like, you have people's perceptions at the youth level, where you have guys that are coaching and girls, but you have people that are coaching that don't have the requisite background to be able to be doing it. And people take their word as gold, and it's a hard thing, and it's the truth. Like, you know, if you're not legitimately in this game 24 7, 365, like, you don't really. It's hard to coach. And I think sometimes, like, things get lost on a lot of people and the nuances of the game and those things. And, like, they don't know, and they don't know what they don't know. And you have people that believe this stuff, that this is what we need to be doing, because Coach Joe says so. Like, Coach Joe is also an accountant. Like, he knows what he knows by listening to John Smoltz on the playoff broadcast and what he says. And he's probably the guy that's like, well, you know, Greg Maddox didn't throw hard. He just located. You don't need to throw hard. Like, Greg Maddox is one of the best pitchers in the history of the earth. Like, he was put on this earth to throw a baseball the way that he did. Stop using those examples. And I think that it's hard for people to kind of separate that out and seek out the people who actually know what they're doing. And we need those people to keep the youth game going. But I think that we keep people in baseball. But at the same time, I think we need to have some semblance of an idea of how to be able to do this safely and to keep more people in the game. And, you know, it's. It's not about recruiting. It's not about, you know, being a big leaguer. You know, you and I were talking before we started this, like, the last dude that you can think of that has lived up to the hype, and there's a guy every year, but the last dude to do is Bryce Harper. And we're. What's he now? I feel like he's, like, 42, but he's not 30. [00:17:21] Speaker B: 32. [00:17:22] Speaker A: Right. So, like, 16 years. Like, that dude's lived after the hype, and there was a lot of hype around that guy. But, you know, before him, it was a rod. Like, very few guys come out of the high school ranks every year and go and end up in the show. And be really, really good. You know, Joe Ma was another one. We were talking about who Joe Maurer was. Dude signed to play quarterback and catcher at Florida State when Florida State was really good at football. But, you know, I just think that, like, you're. The priorities need to shift. The priorities need to shift to keeping kids in the game, letting them have fun, developing their skill set and making sure from a safety perspective that, that kids are, are able to do it. You know, I still go back to, you know, asking youth kids to go play 50, 60 games. Like this game is not designed and their bodies are not able to handle that. And then you wonder in 10 years when they blow out or they're burnout or they won't don't want anything to do with it. Like, yeah, man, yeah, you guys, they've played 7,000 games since they were six years old. [00:18:32] Speaker B: Playing three games a day on the weekends. Like, that's not good for anybody. Like it two, two things real quick. And back to like you were talking about, like when we were kids. And like the one thing that we didn't do is we didn't play more than a double header. The other thing that we did is we practiced a lot, which is something that I don't think happens a lot anymore with travel is like they just go and play games and you don't practice. Right. So that's something that I think is missing. I truly think that that's missing from youth sports, specifically in the travel ball world, is that they don't practice enough. Like, they go and play their games Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or whatever it is, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And you try to make it out of your constellation bracket or whatever it is, and then everybody disperses and then you come back and you play again on Friday. But you don't. Most, most of these travel organizations, it's not all of them. I'm sure some of them do it, but they don't go and practice. They don't work on cuts and relays. They don't work on bun defense, they don't work on base running, they don't work on the game type stuff, which. Which oddly enough is that they don't work on it as youth. But we do it in college. Like we practice that in college. There's is a really interesting clip on. There's a Florida Gators Twitter handle. Some college kid probably goes to practices and videotapes and whatever. And he's a, you know, writes about Florida Gator baseball. And he was at their practices and he was videotaping Their practices, like, you want to see what a practice looks like. In college, they're doing bunts on the field, pressure pack situation. You don't. We're doing that in college, but we don't do it in the youth game. So, like, it's kind of flipped itself on the head. You would think that in college you would focus more on the reps and less on the baseball, like, situational stuff because the kids would be advanced enough to do it. But they actually focus on that a ton. In college, like we used to tell our guys, practice time is team time. If you need individual work and you want more swings or you want more ground balls, like you need to come after. But the two hours that we're on the field as a team, like, that's team practice time. We're going to do team stuff. We're going to work on things that help us win games. Outside of your swing and your ground balls, right? Do we take those reps? Yeah, absolutely. But they don't practice enough. And I think that that is huge. The, the other piece of it that. [00:20:57] Speaker A: I think not to cut you off, but you nailed it. Like, nailed it. Like the practice side of things is, has gone by the wayside. And, and I think that when we, we've complained about it on here before from a coaching standpoint, like when, when kids get to you, they don't know how to take leads, they don't know how to bunt, they don't know bun coverages, they don't know any of that. Like, and that's what it boils down to. Like, the things that actually matter when you get to the next level are not being taught at younger levels. And it's either A, a lack of understanding, I guess, to my point earlier, or B, a lack of just not doing it. [00:21:42] Speaker B: And the kids who get taught, the kids who get taught how to take a lead, how to correctly take a turn at first base, how to line up on a double cut, who've been drilled on where to be on the field and the timing of things and how rotations happen and different stuff like that simple stuff like a pitcher being able to go back up the right base or taking the proper route, the first base on a, on a pfp, like that stuff that the kids who are taught that and are in high school programs that teach that stuff, are in travel programs that practice and teach that stuff. Those kids, they are equipped, they are so much farther ahead than some other kids who get to college because it's, it's something they don't have to worry about that stuff is easy for them because they've already been taught it. The other thing that I think is really profound might not be the right word, but coach. For a decade, I had the chance to coach some really, really talented players at William and Mary. Guys who won, recently made it to the big leagues with the Cardinals and a bunch of other guys who played professionally and a bunch of other guys who are really good baseball players and haven't been separated from that from a little bit. And really thinking about it, we're talking about having fun at the youth level and enjoying showing up. It's no different when a kid's 19, 20, 21, 22 years old, and they're at college. As soon as they don't enjoy showing up to the field, it is over. It's over. It is over. And I've. I've seen it happen. I've seen guys who, by the time they're a sophomore, they go. They're just worn out by the grind of it. They're worn out by having to show up six days a week. They're worn out by the lifts, and they. They stop enjoying doing the stuff that they have to do in their careers are over. They might play two more years, but their careers are over. Everybody shows up to the park sometimes and you're tired and you're stressed out because of class or your girlfriend broke up or whatever. Like, those days happen, right? You have off days. But every kid that I was around that was a good player or a really good teammate, probably more importantly, they all enjoyed showing up every day. It was fun for them. Practice was fun. They liked being in the locker room. They liked the. The ritual of it all, and they wanted to be there. It wasn't something they had to do. It was something that they chose to do and they were bought in and they were going to show up every day. But for some reason, when we're 10, 11, 12 years old, we've taken the fun out of it. And it's like the practice thing and the having fun thing has been flipped on its head. And I think that that might be an odd statement for some people to hear. Having coached the guys that I had a chance to coach and be around, some of the coaches that I think would echo the same sentiment is as soon as a kid doesn't enjoy showing up in college, it's over. Like, it's over. They're never going to be what they can be, and there's nothing you can do about it. [00:24:58] Speaker A: No, there's not And I think you're dead right. Like there's, if you're doing that to. [00:25:02] Speaker B: A 12 year old, like, are you setting them up to enjoy playing when they're 16? [00:25:08] Speaker A: No, I, and I think the other side of it is like, what is your goal? Like what are your goals when you're doing this Right? And I've seen it a million times. That kid that has played his entire life, he only plays baseball. And the entire goal for everyone in that family and for the kid was to go play college baseball. And they set foot on campus their freshman year and it's like, well, now what, what do I do? Now I achieved this goal that has been talked about for the last 13 years of my life. Now what? And that's where you end up in this situation, a similar situation, what you're talking about, because now it becomes a grind because you haven't, you haven't had to practice four times a week, you haven't had to travel, you haven't had to go to class, you haven't. And all of a sudden like the joy gets sucked out of it and you don't enjoy doing it anymore. And those kids wash out. They do. And you know, I was fortunate enough just like, yeah, I mean I coached for 16 years. Like I coached all Americans at all three levels, Division 1, 2 and 3, coach guys that played professionally. I mean, I played with guys who played in the big leagues, a number of guys who played in the big leagues. But like, we all grew up and did kind of the same thing. And you know, I just, you know, you go around, I think you'd be shocked at the amount of people who are, the amount of guys who are in the big leagues and playing at a super high level in the, you know, the four A and high end AAA guys that were not studs their entire lives, just good players who really enjoy showing up to the field every single day and just outwork everyone else. And that I think is the, the, the answer more times than not. It's not always going to be the most skilled guy. It's the guy that legitimately enjoys showing up to the yard every day and working as hard as he can to be as good as he can. And it'll take you as far as it will. Like eventually the game will tell you when your time is up. For some of us, like us, it was the day your last game was played and the draft ended and no one called you and it was like, well, on to the next. But you know, I, I just think that like you Know, this game can afford you so many things in, in life. And, and, and I was fortunate enough to do this from a playing perspective for four years, a coaching perspective for 12, 16, you know, and it's 20 years with my math and then doing it on this end. Now consulting, I'm still involved in it and it's afforded me a lot of things. I've gotten to travel all over this country. I, I've seen a lot of really good baseball. I mean, for 16 years of my life, you know, I, I got to, my job was to just watch baseball and coach it. And that's a pretty cool thing. You know, this job has afforded me my family. I met my wife coaching in the, in this business. Like, there's a lot that I owe to this and it wasn't because I was pressured my entire life to, to, to attain something that, you know, but the goal was never to make it to the big leagues. Right. Like, if that was something that happened, awesome. Like the goal was to find the right place that I could go play college baseball in and have an opportunity to be able to play quite a bit and see where that got me. And you know, I, I was able to do that. And I think that knowing where your priorities are and understanding that especially at the youth level, like kids still need to be kids. You know, we don't have, we barely have two sport athletes anymore. There are really no three sport athletes anymore. Where again, to be the old man yelling at the clouds. Like, a lot of the guys that we went to college with and played with were bare minimum two sport athletes. Most of them were three. Right. Like most of them were, you know, played something in the fall, whether it was football or soccer or, you know, something, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of guys played hoops. You know, I wrestled, we had, you know, Joey Sargent was a big time wrestler. You know, obviously we all played baseball in the spring, but there were a lot of guys who, who were multiple sport athletes. And I think that it's, it's important in this game to get kids away from baseball for a little bit. Not because it's not because you don't love it. Like, you know, sometimes it makes it even better. But you know, to that break, this game's too hard. Like, you know, you go, you hit 400, people think you're really good. Like you're still failing six out of 10 times. Like the more you fail, sometimes that can wear you out. And if it's a continued thing over the course of a number of Years. All of a sudden it's like, what am I doing this for? What am I putting in all this work for? What am I doing this for if I'm just going to go out there and not be good? And I think that happens to younger kids who, who do this over and over at a clip that we, we, we've never seen this before, you know, and I think that the argument could be made that a lot of the injuries we see and I'm glad that Major League Baseball has taken a step forward to, you know, with the scouting shutdown and the NCAA has shut it down, you know, but like it's got to be a buy in at the youth level too that we don't have uber young kids playing 40, 50, 60 games. Because that wear and tear is. Their bodies can't handle it. College guys bodies can't handle it. And we're talking about 18 to 22 year old kids who are in the weight room four to five times a week, like their bodies break down. What do you think's gonna happen with a 10, 11 year old? You know, Lodge, I mean I'm not a doctor, but logic would tell me that after staying at a Holiday Inn Express last night that you might end up having some arm issues down the road. And you know, like, it's just like it's, and I think it's this fallacy that like, you know, like those kids aren't built up correctly. Right. Like college guys are built up, pro guys are built up. Like you see them at this point in the year being able to go deeper into games, albeit less and less than we've ever seen before in this game. But like there's a specialty with, with guys coming out of the pen and throwing 100 miles an hour, you know, but like those guys are built up to do that stuff. College guys are built up to go, you know, 110, 115 into a game later in the year because they've had a progression over the course of a couple months. If you have no shutdown and no build up, like you're just constantly throwing, you're going to run into issues eventually. And then you, you know, when eventually there's an issue when you're 15, 16, it's like, well, the coach just throws them all the time. Yeah, well, we're not also counting, you know, the wear and tear that we have on you for the last 12 years of your life, that you've played 70 games every year and you've played shortstop and center field and pitched like with no Break, like, at some point, you know, not that I necessarily subscribe to the idea that, like, you have so many bullets in your arm, but I think, like, that there's so much, some semblance to truth to it, because we haven't seen this type of stuff before. You know, the rise of the youth sports in this realm. You should just play Little League and go to the Little League World Series. And when your Little League ended like, that was it. Dream was over. Now you have, you know, now you have people fundraising and vying to go play in Cooperstown every, you know, every week for, you know, whatever they're printing money for at that facility. You know, for what? And again, like, sure, for the experience. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Cool. [00:33:12] Speaker A: That's awesome. But, like, you know, like, I've heard horror stories from friends of mine who have kids that are older than my son that, like, you know, if you don't make the Travel team by 12, like, you're pretty much done. They take that game team to Cooperstown and then that's the team that moves on and those kids quit. Like, that's a horrific thing for our game. A horrific thing for our game. That. That's the goal. And then after that, if kids don't make it, like, the kids feel that they. They can't play this game anymore. It's horrible, horrible for this game. And that's what, like. And that's what's being promoted. Like, that's the biggest thing in the history of the world. And, you know, I just. I think we're at that level. I think that we're at a very. We're at an impasse where we're going to start losing a lot of really good players to this game. Because we think at 10, 11 years old that it's written in stone that guys are going to be really good. And, you know, that's just not the case. I mean, there's a lot of big leaguers out there that are Division two guys that are Division three. I mean, Terry Scrubbell, you know, you and I were talking about it, like, I mean, he's probably going to go, what, back to back Cy Youngs. That dude had one offer out of high school made. [00:34:31] Speaker B: Fourth guy in American League history to win. Back to backside. [00:34:35] Speaker A: He's the best pitcher on the planet right now. Like, it is a joke what that dude does with the baseball in his hand on the bump. It is a joke. And, you know, University of Seattle, God bless him, was the only school in the country that offered him a scholarship. Sure, there was other schools out There that offered them, right? But like from a scholarship perspective, like they were the only ones. That's where he went. And you know, I don't even know what they are. What are they? The Pilots? I don't even know what they are. [00:35:03] Speaker B: I should know that, but I don't. [00:35:04] Speaker A: God bless the University of Seattle, but like, you know, there's, there's way more guys out there like that than you could ever imagine. And to think that your, your career from a baseball standpoint is done or your son's career is done at 12 because he didn't make some meaningless tournament that everyone has to pay for and fundraise, like, that's a shame. I don't, I think that it's, it's bad for the game that that's where, that's where we've gone. That we think that that is like the be all, end all of what's going on. [00:35:44] Speaker B: I think to sum it up, like, the best 12 year old is rarely the best 16 year old. The best 16 year old is rarely the best 18 year old. And the best 18 year old is rarely the best 20, 22 year old and so on and so forth. And it's, yeah, you want to keep game kids in this game as long as you can. You want to keep them engaged, you want them to enjoy it. There comes a point where winning matters and playing in good tournaments and good teams matter, but it doesn't matter at 12. It doesn't. Nobody can convince me otherwise. I have yet to hear anybody give me a compelling argument as to why playing traveling around the country and playing 50 games as a 12 year old is going to suit them well when they're 14, 15, 16 years old. When I've watched 16 year olds who weren't recruitable players turn into Division 1 scholarship guys 18 months later. [00:36:41] Speaker A: I mean, we had a guy, we had a guy at RPI, recruited Brendan McNerney, who was big body kid and under current rules would not be at RPI for one year. He'd be at RPI for a year. Like I recruited him, he was all of 82 to 84, bumped a couple 85s. He got the campus and he was 88 to 91. Like, you know, and like there's more guys out there like that than you think. And you know, I just think that there's, you know, you're 100% right. That rarely is the best 12 year old, the best 14 year old, 16 year old, 18 year old. Does it happen? [00:37:24] Speaker B: Sure. [00:37:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it does. But generally speaking though, like People are going to catch up. And this idea that at the youth level, that's what, you know, we need to push all our eggs into a basket of a tournament that in the grand scheme of things is literally irrelevant in anything that goes on. And like, I will, like, I'll even take it a step further to the point of like if you as a player or you as a youth coach think that going to a tournament at 12, wherever, whether it's Cooperstown or whatever, and like that's the pinnacle of your athletic career, I would argue that you didn't have a great athletic career. Like that's just the reality of the situation. Like, cool. You were the best 12 year old team, like awesome. What, what, what, what, what do you get for that? Do you get like a million dollar contract and the New York Yankees want to hire you? Like no, they don't, they don't care. [00:38:27] Speaker B: You're telling me that my Southern Berkshire 8o season for pee wee football at 11 years old didn't matter? You know what's funny about that? Not a single kid on that team play college football. [00:38:39] Speaker A: No, exactly right. The East Cream Bush Pop Warner team, we had like 65 straight wins. We won a bunch of Super Bowls. There was like one dude on that team who went and played college football, albeit he was good, but like one dude. I don't, I couldn't even tell you who we played. What was like, I couldn't, couldn't care less at 39 years old. I didn't care at 18. I mean it was cool when you did it, but like, you know, it's not like at 39, I'm sitting around having some adult beverages being like, who. I'll tell you what, when we played that Shaker team in 1996, you know, we ran that 32 power ISO, you know, we, we really blew the doors off of the number 52 there. Like, spare me. I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you a game from. I could probably tell you like three or four things that happened in high school at that front from games. Most of them are something that was so like, it was more funny than it was like the actual gameplay itself. [00:39:50] Speaker B: Well, how about, how about this? And looking back And I had not thought about this in years. Years I had not thought about this. But it speaks to and I experienced this. So the, the football league that I played in when I was a kid, you had, there's age limits and there was weight limits. So like 10, it was like nine to 11. And if you were nine to 11, you had to weigh under 150 pounds. So I remember it was a huge deal when I was 11 and I broke the 100 pound barrier. Like it was like a big deal. Yeah, I remember just being freaking pumped that I broke the 100 pound level. And you could play in that league if you were 12, but if you were 12, you had to weigh less than 125 pounds. And we had to travel up to Pittsfield, Massachusetts to do thriving metropolis to do weigh ins. Every single kid had to go step on a scale. Right. And looking back on it, it's so ridiculous. We had kids and I'll never forget, this is a buddy of mine, was his. I can't believe I'm saying that. His dad, he will remain nameless for the purpose of the podcast, but his dad, so he was one of the kids who weighed like 155 and he needed to be, be below 150 pounds. They dressed him up, they wrapped him in garbage bags from ankle to neck, put him in sweatpants and he ran around the facility for an hour. They wiped him down and he stood there in just underwear to weigh in so he could get to 149. We were doing that as 11 year olds. Like, how dumb is that? Like looking back on it, like, how dumb is that? [00:41:51] Speaker A: No, I mean it's, I did very similar things, like it's 15, 16 and 17 to make weight for wrestling. [00:41:59] Speaker B: Like it's like that's a little different. But yeah, like, but just a wild thing. An 11 year old who all he wants to do is go have a freaking soda and a hot dog after is running around for an hour. And I remember, I remember like, I can remember him running around the field outside of the weighing station and like. [00:42:21] Speaker A: You had to line up like cattle. [00:42:23] Speaker B: And like teasing him. Oh yeah, got to get to 149. Like, but like what a wild thing to put an 11 year old through. And I don't know, like some people will be like, I mean you even. [00:42:38] Speaker A: Had the kids, you had the kids that were underweight. I mean we had kids that were underweight that like they'd weigh in in their like pants and they'd like load their cup with lead. Yes. What are we doing? So you look back on it now and you're like, yo, what, what is happening? [00:43:01] Speaker B: It seems normal because the adults in the room, looking back when you're 11. [00:43:06] Speaker A: You'Re like, Ah, this is just normal. [00:43:07] Speaker B: It's like, who signed off on this? Yeah. And like I'm as competitive as they get. And, like, I don't. I think that certain things breed toughness, and I think that going through tough things and doing tough things is really valuable. But when you're, like, 11 or 12, I just don't know if that's the answer. And it's not quite the same as what we're talking about with, like, traveling all over the place and doing all that kind of stuff. But I think it. I think it points to do good by the kids. Teach them how to play the game, make sure that they're having fun, make sure that they get an ice cream and a Popsicle after the game. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. Because if. If they enjoy it at 12, they're more likely to enjoy it at 13, they're more likely to enjoy IT at 14, they're more likely to enjoy it at 15. And then when you get to 15 and 16, you can start to look at it and be like, oh, okay, like, maybe you have a chance to play in college. Now we need to start to think about, hey, like, do we need to make a couple sacrifices? If this is what you really want, that's when that conversation should start. And I. I just hope that. I hope that the parents who are listening to this, if you have a young kid, like, just. Just think about what we're saying. Like, you know, it's our opinion, but I think that our opinion comes from a place of experience and, you know, knowledge. Like, we've coached at the highest level of amateur baseball, and we've been around guys and coach guys who have gone on to play at higher levels than we ever imagined playing. We've been around coaches who are coaching at higher levels than we've ever coached. And the funny thing is, is that the message from those guys is all the same that we're telling you now. Like, when Greg Olson or Chipper Jones or Jeff Franco, like, guys who are hall of Famers or superstars or borderline hall of Famers, say the same thing. I don't think it's a coincidence. [00:45:04] Speaker A: And, no, it's not. [00:45:06] Speaker B: Make sure that. Make sure the joy is there. Make sure the kids enjoy it. Like, I think if you start there, like, yes, ask them to win. Ask them to play hard. Ask them to compete. But your first question when you get in the car shouldn't be like, why'd you take that third strike in your third at bat? It doesn't do anybody any good. [00:45:30] Speaker A: No. [00:45:31] Speaker B: Like. [00:45:35] Speaker A: They'Re not trying to strike out. [00:45:37] Speaker B: Meanwhile, I'm working on my 13 month old arm action trying to get him to throw right handed instead of left handed. [00:45:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I was throwing softballs at Walker when he was like 4 months old so he wouldn't be afraid of the ball he gets in the box. [00:45:53] Speaker B: But I digress. Like I think it's important, I think it's important for the health of baseball, but. [00:46:00] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's important for the kids too that like you understand that it's not. I mean you see those signs on fields all the time. Like you know, when I was coaching, I'd laugh at him a little bit when I was younger and now that I'm older and seen of where this is gone, it's only in my opinion gotten a little bit worse. Yeah, I think no one is showing up to watch your 12 year old be really good at 12 year old baseball. [00:46:26] Speaker B: It doesn't help when you've got perfect game posting kit, posting videos, 2000 and 30s. No. [00:46:33] Speaker A: And they're part of the problem too. Like, I mean it's, let's call it what it is. But I also think like you have to understand where it's coming from. Like that is a multi billion dollar business that's trying to generate more money. It's what it is, you know, and you know people fall into this trap all the time and it, those things do not matter. It doesn't matter. Like the dude that's the best 2032 ranked player right now is likely not going to be the best ranked, you know, top ranked 2032 player in seven years. No, it's just like that's the truth. [00:47:21] Speaker B: There's too much that can happen. [00:47:23] Speaker A: So I mean, and like, and again to kind of put a bow on it. But like if you're paying attention on Twitter right now, you're seeing it in real time of guys at the high school level that just went to Jupiter and then were likely told that they no longer have a spot on the team in which they had committed to because their recruiting is now open. And however way you slice it, it's likely because they went down there and when they saw them, that coaching staff said, I don't think he's going to be good enough to play for us now. They thought that seven, eight months ago when they committed him, maybe a year, but not now. It's happening in real time. So if you think that you can do it, you know, you have this all figured out at 11 and that stuff matters. Fast forward six, seven years, you got a whole other bag of issues. [00:48:17] Speaker B: Mm. All right. Anything else you want to add? Coach? [00:48:24] Speaker A: Not now. I could probably talk about this for hours, but no, not now. [00:48:29] Speaker B: Have fun. Keep it fun. Make sure your kids enjoy it. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to our TED Talk on youth sports. Adios. Talk to you next week. Thanks everybody. Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and smash that like button for us. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram MD Baseball. If you want to find out what me and Keith do to help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check us out on emdbaseball.com take a few minutes to check out our new online academy. I promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening. Check in with you next week.