Episode 129: Interview with Tarleton St. Head Coach Fuller Smith

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[00:01:11] Speaker B: Welcome to this week's edition of the Dugout Dish podcast. I'm Andy Kirakidis, joined by my wonderful co host, Keith Glasser. Keith, how we doing? [00:01:18] Speaker A: Great. How are you? [00:01:20] Speaker B: Got a special guest on tonight. Looking forward to this conversation. I'm going to kick it over to you for the intro. [00:01:26] Speaker A: Sure. Tonight we have friend of mine and now a friend of the show, but someone I played college summer ball with. So to show you that this, this business is pretty, you pretty much know everyone in this business in, in one way shape or form. But tonight we're joined by the Tarleton State head coach, Fuller Smith. Fuller, welcome to the show. [00:01:49] Speaker B: Bob. [00:01:49] Speaker C: Good to be here, guys. [00:01:51] Speaker A: We appreciate you taking the time. Before we get going, just give our listeners a quick rundown of how you've gotten to where you are. [00:01:59] Speaker C: Yes, it's been a long road since Saratoga, New York, 20 something years ago. [00:02:05] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:02:05] Speaker C: But not make kind of a trek around the South Southwest. Originally played at Ole Miss, ended up coaching there for about four or five years. Traveled over to Texas, the University of Texas, Arlington. My wife's originally from Dallas, so it was a good landing spot for us. We actually just had our first kid when we took the job there. So it was kind of divine intervention. But was there the recruiting coordinator at UTR onto him for about five years and then, you know, shifted south to Sam Houston. Was there for four years and we were in a regional and then after the regional year got the phone call, you know, to come up here and be the head coach and, you know, excited to be here at Tarleton. It's a growing place it's pretty interesting, all the stuff that's been done, but, you know, there's roughly about, you know, you guys don't even know. It's about $5 million of, of business growth as far as buildings and things going up in this, in this town, which is unheard of in a smaller West Texas town. But it's a growing, growing university. I think we're growing at a 5% clip annually, enrollment wise. So we're in the A and M system. So we're kind of the, the booming, the booming A and M north, so to speak. But good baseball program, basketball as well as football, as we're. We've been transitioning from the Division 2 to Division 1 level. [00:03:28] Speaker B: Yeah, you got that, that transition, which for folks who are listening, you guys were Division 2 for a long time and have made the, the transition. If you want to take a second and just kind of talk through that a little bit and what that was like initially for you guys. [00:03:43] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And obviously I took the job. I think we were in year four of the transition, so there have been three years prior to that, you know, so there, there had been some growing pains, you know, through that and some staffs that, you know, did a good job to get us to this point. But when we took over the job here two years ago, you know, we weren't eligible for postseason, which is crazy. I've never been on a team where, you know, you're coaching or playing and you're knowing you're not going to get to play after your last game, it's over. And so getting the guys motivated every day, you know, that's something that we had to, we had to fight at times. But, you know, we had a really good group. They hadn't won a whole lot, and so, you know, they were hungry just to be winners. And so they were, they were bought in from the word go. But, you know, I wouldn't, you know, I could tell you there was times where I'm like, man, this is like, you know, we're not, we're playing for a championship, but we're not playing to be the last team standing, so to speak. And so. But we had a really good year. One more games than they ever have. Division one, you know, got in the conference tournament for the first time ever and then ended up getting hot down the stretch and won it and got to. Got to actually have a dog pal at the end of the year, which is pretty cool. So. [00:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. For those of you who don't know, they weren't Allowed to go and play in the NCAA tournament, which is really kind of, I guess the, the kick in the pills there. But to, to break that seal has got to be a pretty big deal for the program and make that jump. I, I can imagine that was a pretty cool feeling. [00:05:19] Speaker C: Oh, it was great. It was awesome. And to see the look of those guys that they were the first to do it. You know, we talk about being the first because there's a lot of firsts that are going to happen here. The first team to, you know, want a conference championship, well, they were able to do it. The first team to win a conference championship in Division 1 outright. The first team to plan a regional, win a regional. So I think it was, it was really cool to see those guys get to enjoy that last moment, you know, know. And obviously I think us and I think Tennessee won it that year. So I guess we're the only two teams that won our last game. So you know, if they want to play we, we could draw it back up and bring all the, the pro guys they have back and we'll play in a three game set. But I think all the guys that I had, a lot of them are like bankers and finance guys and, and so I don't know if they're still in shape to do that yet. So. [00:06:12] Speaker B: No, that's great. The question we typically lead off with, we got a little sidetracked because your guys set up going from D2 to Division 1 is unique. But how do you go about identifying guys that are fit for, for your program? [00:06:28] Speaker C: Well, I think a lot of it has to do with, you know, the town we're in. It's a really, it's a blue collar town. It's actually the cowboy capital of the world if you guys don't know. So like I, I don't know. I didn't know a lot about rodeo when I got here because being from Alabama, you know, rodeo is not a big thing. But you know, most of the really good rodeo stars from the time, Murrays of the World and others, they either live or lived around these, this town at some point in their career. So it's a very, very blue collar, hard working town. And so, you know, one of the things we look for and identify is, is, you know, is that the type of kid that's going to fit in this town number one. And that doesn't mean that they can't, you know, they can't come from, you know, really, really, really, really nice area. It just means that they're willing to, you Know, put their, put their nose down at work. But we look for a lot of guys, whether it be the high school in the state of Texas and surrounding states to the junior colleges. I think junior college is a little bit different. You know, a lot of people look at it, you know, a certain way, but for us, there's a lot of really good baseball players that come out of the junior college ranks here and some of them are really, really good. They want to play baseball and still get their degree. And so we tend to have quite a few guys from that, from that end up getting their degrees from here going on and getting the grad degrees other at other places like Rice and others after they're done here. So. But we tend to target those guys and we're kind of a strength, speed combo offensively. So it's the total opposite of Keith. You probably remember me. I couldn't run out of sight. So we're trying to find the guys that are total opposite of me, like tall, lean, athletic, that can run and then on the mound, you know, a lot of guys that can just fill up the zone with, with two pitches and have projection to develop into something, you know, to a big league product when it's all said and done. [00:08:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's interesting. Like we don't. We were talking about this pre show, but a lot of people I think sometimes look down their nose at the junior college ranks while not understanding how serious it is and probably more specifically in the south and California for that argument's sake, but like how good baseball is at the junior college level. And I also think the other side of it is you're getting guys and you're able to, you're able to recruit guys and ultimately get guys, I should say that. Have, you know, 3, 4, 500 at bats in college already against good competition, and you have something that you can go to and be like, hey, this is a guy that, I mean, shoot, he hit.360 at Meridian. Like, this is a dude that we should probably be on because I know the league they play in, I know the talent that's there. Like, that guy might also not have been able to get 3, 400 at bats with you his first two years. And being able to bring that guy in as a junior and seamlessly transition into making that jump, I think is huge. But the understanding of the listeners is like, it's not. If, if that is an option for you, it's not the worst option in the world to be a junior college guy. Like you have. I mean, I Think you can play 56 games in the spring. And I mean, I mean, let's face it, there are no rules, not in a bad way, but like you can legitimately practice. The second you set foot on campus, you leave and then turn around and do the same thing in the spring while playing 56 games. There's something to be said about that because the, the development that you get over the course of, you don't get that at the Division 1 level. You don't get it at 2, you don't get it at 3, not at all. You can legitimately go practice. You can you're inner squatting, you're doing like you're facing college pitching damn near every day and you know it's kind of sink or swim. But for the guys that swim like that, that's a huge benefit for guys in the recruiting process, especially nowadays with the transfer portal and everything else. It allows you to kind of look at it and be objective from the standpoint of like, hey, here are two guys that are the same. A high school kid and a juco kid. The juco kid hit 360 for two years here. I, we probably have a better chance of this kid being uber successful for us right away. Not to say you don't take the high school kid, but maybe it's like, hey, in two years when this kid, maybe he's only there for a year, but in two years this other kid's probably going to be ready to supplant him and we, we can keep it rolling. I just think that there's, there's an air of I don't think junior college is good enough for me. When at the end of the day, to your point, like you can get an associate, you can get a four year degree. Like it doesn't say there's no asterisks on your degree that you went to a junior college and then you can go to a Rice, you can go to another really good school to get your masters. Like it doesn't that none of that factors in. And if that's the best fit for you, then that should be something that you legitimately entertain through your recruiting process. [00:11:40] Speaker C: No doubt. And that's, and honestly, Keith, like yeah, I was a product of the junior college system. I actually went to a four year back when there was a whole, there was no rules similar to is now. And there's, you know, now they've got roster caps. There was 60 plus on a roster at one point. And so I actually got to experience that firsthand. Like I played in 35 games in the fall, you know, 40 games including inner squads against each other, 18 inning days. Like if you're good, you'll figure it out, you know. But I think I probably got roughly 800 at bats in a full calendar year. I mean that's 800 bats that I couldn't get anywhere else. It doesn't matter what type of pitching. But the cool thing is in Texas like you're facing, you know, you're facing like we were facing Chris Davis, Jake Arietta, guys that pitch in the big leagues. Herman Duran had played in the big leagues for years. So you're facing guys that maybe didn't want to go to a four year because they were trying to draft and fall their dnf. And so junior college is a really good route for a lot of guys and is, you know, Division 1 baseball and college baseball in general. The rosters, if you look up and down, they're getting older and older and older and you know, for a young guy coming in, it might be tough to crack the lineup at a big Power 4 school. It'll be a lot easier here, you know, at a mid major school. But in a junior college you're able to step in and get really, really quality at bats or innings to develop in the type of player you want to be. So in a year from now or two years from now, your dream school is North Carolina or Texas or wherever you might be ready to do that right now, you know, and so I think that's the thing like, and you know, people look at it, maybe it's not as good, it's really good. You know, we actually, we're playing I think four junior colleges this fall, you know, the better ones in the state because I think it's good for us from a recruiting standpoint. Number one, we get to evaluate them against our own guys. But number two, you know, we get to, it's a good, it's a good game. You know, they're, they're, you know, one through five, most of the time on the mound are about as good as anybody we'll see in mid major baseball and some of at the power four level. And so just because either they don't have the grades or they want to get drafted or what, what that looks like. But I think, I think junior college is a great route, I really do. And it's not for everybody. But you can still go to junior college, Keith, if you're a 34 act and a 4.0 and still get your degree from Vanderbilt, you know you can still transfer out there and go get your degree. And your degree is going to say Vanderbilt University. It's not going to say Polk State Community College, you know, so. And I think that's the thing people don't really necessarily look at all the time, but baseball is really good. You know, I think it's getting better and better each year. Coaches are getting better at every level. And we see so much crossover between professional baseball and college baseball where coaches are flipping back and forth. There's so many new ideas and there's so much. So much guys that are on the cutting edge of things. I think the game's growing faster than it ever has. [00:14:58] Speaker A: Couldn't agree more. I think for me that the juco thing for me was open early in my career coaching, when I was coaching at West All. And I mean, we were primarily juco heavy. And I, you know, and I get it why part of the northeast and part of this country doesn't really love it where, you know, I came from an area where it wasn't like, not that it's not good, but it's not what it is in the South. And, you know, I. Where they were like, we're gonna go watch Meridian and Itawamba play. And I was like, how was this gonna be right where. And showed to Meridian. Like, first of all, their field's absurd. And I like, I'm watching. I mean, this is an 0809. Like, I'm watching dudes that are up rates low nines and freak athletes on the field making plays all over the place. And I'm like, yo, what am I watching right now? And it's like, you know, it's your first endeavor into recruiting, right? So, like, you're taking as many notes as you possibly can. You're like, writing in longhand. You're just like. You're looking back. You're like, God, I'm an idiot. But I'm like, yeah, I circled all these guys. I'm like, I think all these guys can play. And it's like, yeah, he's committed to Mississippi State. He's going to Ole Miss. That gets committed to Texas. I'm like, who? Okay, well, who the hell do we recruit that? Yeah, and. But it opened my eyes to the stand. Like, I was like, damn. Like, this is. This is big boy baseball down here. Like, you know, we had. We had it a womb at our field. We had Walter State, Polk came down Holmes Community College where Roy Oswald played. Like, you know, and you're watching it, and I'm like, this is, this is legit, really, really high end baseball. And you know, aside from that, like coaching in the Division 2 level in Alabama, you know, I've said this before on here, you know, I'm upstate New York boy, played Division 1, I thought I knew everything. And then, I mean we were six in the country. We were good. And I was humbled very quickly in that A, this is a huge country. B, baseball is very good all over the place. And it's not just what I. My tiny little world of what I thought it was and really opened my eyes to the standpoint of like, you know, I mean, shit. That year I think Kingly's team, Lyn Lynn won the national championship that year. And it was when, I mean our regional is Lynn, Tampa Southern, ark. [00:17:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:25] Speaker A: A first rounder. U.S. delta State. And there was two other teams in there but the Sunshine States, Load Nova Southeastern and like the Blue bloods. [00:17:35] Speaker C: A Division 2. [00:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah. What was they called it? Title Town. The one in Georgia. [00:17:42] Speaker C: West Georgia. [00:17:43] Speaker A: No, it wasn't West Georgia. It was the other one. Come on, Andy. It'll come to me. [00:17:49] Speaker B: Used to be a junior college. [00:17:51] Speaker A: Yes. But anyways, but they. It was like we were all in the same regional and I mean Tommy Kanely came out of there. Tommy Kanely obviously still pitching the big leagues. I mean, I want to say I. We went back. I went back like three or four years later. There was like 25 dudes that played in that region that got drafted. [00:18:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:10] Speaker A: Absurd. And guys that. Florida Southern was the other one. I'm Sorry, there was 18 Florida Southern, but like Florida Southern. And we. I coached in the summer that year, the year previous with four dudes from Southern, from Florida Southern. Three of them got popped. They didn't even play on that Florida Southern team. And you know, looking back, it's like, yo, like you have no idea how good the baseball is. And I think that that's. It's something that like we try to get through on this podcast of like just because, you know, and I think it's hard, right. Like if you're getting a lot of interest and you are being recruited, it's hard to. Or you play with within a summer organization that has really good players that get recruited that because you play there, you should be recruited when the reality is 93% of you won't even play college baseball. And that's a hard number to kind of wrap yourself your head around. It's like you have to be in the 7% that are going to go play 1, 2 or 3. Now, we can extrapolate it out and say it's 10% with junior college and NAIA stuff, but if you're going to go play Division 1, 2 or 3, you're in the 7% that have to be good. And within that, there's layers to it. Like, you know this as well as I do, and Andy and I talk about it like, there's Division 2 teams in this country. Go look at the top 25 that would win and not just win, would sweep and dominate three game sets with Division 1 schools in this country. Like, no if, ands or buts about it. And you know the misnomer that, like, oh, Division two is not as good as Division one. Like, hey, man, go watch Tampa play. Like, they're pretty good. Like, they're going to roll out dude after dude after dude. And I just think that, like, I'm beating a dead horse here, right? But I think it can't be understated with how good junior college baseball is and what the, like, Division 2 things like that. I think the one thing, and I'm interested to kind of hear what you think about it with the new transfer, with the transfer rules. We've covered it ad nauseam on here. Yeah. Do you think or have you seen. Do you feel, whatever. That there's more. You're like, the Division 2 might be getting maybe a little bit more hurt in this new world. [00:20:30] Speaker C: Yeah, 100%. [00:20:31] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Like. Like those guys that used to be the D1 kickbacks that would go down to Division 2 because that was the rule. Like, now those really good Division 2 guys are like, yo, I can jump and just go play in the SEC or the ACC instead of kind of being locked in, because used to if they. [00:20:45] Speaker C: If they, you know, if, say, they went to a junior college, let's say they went to junior college for a year and they. And they leveled up to Division 2. They're stuck. You know, like, if they want to leave and go to Division 1, they got to sit out a year now, you know, everybody can go up and down. And so I think a lot of, you know, water's kind of finding its level. You see it every year. A lot of the schools, like, yeah, they'll recruit early, the Blue Bloods will recruit early, but they're still recruiting. You know, they're still going to recruit at the end of the summer, in the middle of the summer. And, you know, they don't sign. You know, you still sign a lot of guys, but they're signing a lot More guys at the end of the year because in the day when one of those players becomes available at the Division 1, Mid Major, Division 2, and they feel like it's the right fit, they're going to take them, you know. And so I think that, you know, the division twos, I think are getting hurt a little bit by it. I think the junior colleges, it's going to kind of, you know, retroactively help, help them. Because a lot of, a lot of guys, especially where we're at, they'll just go to junior college, you know, a lot of, a lot of them, if they, if, if something happened at Division 1 level, it didn't work out, you know, they'll just shift down to JC and like kind of grab their bearings and realign and then, and make another move after that. But yeah, I think that we've had, we've got like four, three or four guys, you know, division two, one division three guy that they've all kind of leveled up, you know, because they've gotten better and you know, a couple of them are, you know, grad transfers. One of them's third year guy, but you know, he's. A lot of them are like, hey, I just want to shot. I want to see if I can do this at this level. And so I think it's, it's cool because guys are developing at their own pace at different places. But you'll have guys like us that have good players that end up at a Power 4 school, you know, and I think that's, you know, to me it's, it's a good thing though, if they want to make a run at it, see if they can do it, like we're not going to stop them. Like, nobody is just like, you know, when you're, you're helping your guys, you know, being recruited, a lot of times when, you know, they, they say, hey, well this school is recruiting me. And it's like, you know, in the back of your mind, like, I don't know if that's a good fit. You know, they'll be fine. I'll be fine. I'll be one of the guys that makes it, you know, makes it on campus and makes it for three or four years and you know, they never think it's going to be them, but some, a lot of times it is. And so I think it's just finding the right fit where you're really, really wanted. And you know that like you're going to get in there and get to develop and play because in a day, development yeah, you can develop in a vacuum in a lab, you know, working on stuff, but until, like, the live bullets are flying, you don't really know what you are and what you need to do to become who you are. And so I think that's where a lot of guys lose track of, like, the development piece of it. Like, you got to know what you can do when, you know, when the game really matters versus, well, the metrics say this in this lab, and I can do this. Well, yeah, but you don't have traffic on the bases and, like, this guy's not going to show bunt or action to hit and run or, you know, do something that, you know, maybe you're not used to. So. But I think it's neat. I really. I really do. I think there's a lot of good and bad with it. I think for us, it's just making sure that we find the right guys and we've done a really good job, honestly, Keith, with retention, and I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing, but a lot of guys have stuck it out. You know, I think a lot of them just. They like it here. They like developing. But I think it makes us better as coaches. Keith. We got to figure out, you know, if we got a guy here for three years, like, we got to continue to, like, keep him learning and improving. So I think it's made us better as coaches. Like, hey, we gotta call who's the best hitting coordinators in the country in pro ball, who are the best hitting guys? And, like, let's talk shop. Let's figure out something that we're not doing or that we could do better to help this guy that's been here for three years and he's got blood and sweat equity in the program. Let's get him to the next level. So, yeah, I think you're right. It has. It has hurt them a little bit, but they're still good. I mean, UT Tyler, Angelo State, West Texas A and M. Lovett Christian, all those schools are in Texas. They're all top 25 type clubs, you know, and, you know, I think Angelo and Tyler played to go the World Series this past year, and both those teams could have won it easily. [00:25:04] Speaker A: So now I think it's like, you bring up a great point, and we'll probably go down this rabbit hole here because Andy and I have beaten the drum on this for a while, and you're our first interview post summer. So we've been carrying this for a while. But the. [00:25:21] Speaker C: I don't know if I want to hear this. [00:25:24] Speaker A: No, no, no, you do, because it illustrates the point that you were just making in that we've in some ways, like, yes, our game is growing at an exponential rate. That's awesome. But in some ways we've lost the ability to actually play the game of baseball. And I think that it's, it's a, it's a weird kind of situation to be in, I think in, in our, in our generation of coaches because we're kind of that bridge, not that I'm coaching anymore, but like we're that bridge from the old school into the new school where we grew up in that, you know, you're going to take, oh, oh all the time and you're, you know, we're going to bunt runners over to second base early in games like that, that kind of small ball, like we're just going to force action type kind of model that we've slowly kind of moved away from. And you hear people like, oh, you know, no bunting. And like, but you still have to play the game because at the end of the day you're going to find yourself in, I mean, you probably know this just as much as anyone else. Like in division one and generally in college baseball, like 50% of your games are one run games. Like, you're playing tight games. If you can't, if you can't defend, you're likely not finding yourself a spot on the field. Conversely, it's one of the easiest ways to get yourself into the lineup early in your career if you can go be a high level defender. But we've kind of gotten away from that because it's not sexy to put on Twitter or Instagram or X whatever we want to call it nowadays because like, you're fielding balls but like, that could be what gets you into the lineup. And you like, you have to play when the lights are on. Like, if you're going to pitch at a 18 and you can't field your position, you're not throwing. It's just like it's going to be hard for you to be like, you know, we're going to throw this guy in this one run game and he's a 19 to the plate and he, he's going to rifle the bunt down the right field line and that kid's going to be standing on third with no outs and we're going to lose. You just can't do it. And I think we've, in some, you know, the pendulum, I think is swinging back but you bring up a great point that you like, you still have to be able to go play when the lights are on and when it actually matters because we've, you know, I mean you see it every year and not to pick on anybody out there, but like, yo, when you're in the transfer portal and you're 94 to 96 with a 15 ERA, it's going to be hard to find a spot because there's a reason that, you know, most, some people might not want to take a chance on that. Yeah, like it's 94 to 96, sure. But what's your whip? Can you like, what are you to the plate? Like, what's your ball to strike ratio? Like, you know, and you know, you flip it on, like you go look and it's like, you know, two punch outs and 15 walks. Like, okay, I can, I can that help me win is ultimately the question that it boils down to. And if that answer is no, you're just going to get passed over. And I think that we've gotten away from that pitching wise and positionally that because we, we, we don't, we don't love the hard things that ultimately are the things that get you on the field of being able to defend, being able to know, like the baseball IQ of just knowing what's going on. I go to so many high school games and I'm like, what, what, what are we doing here? Like, we don't even know how to throw the ball around the infield on a strikeout. Like, we're like third to second to short to back to third to the pitcher. Like, we throw the ball on the right and then we do it. We go around the horn like, no, just get the ball back to the pitcher, please. Like, we're 47 seconds in between pitches here. Like, the speed, the pace of this game is horrific. And you know, it's, it's things like that that I think like it's get like to my original point, like we're that bridge of being able to take that, the old school stuff and blend it with the new school stuff and be able to actually get that stuff to show up in game. And I think that's like, that's the super fun part about coaching. Like now in this era with guys our age and seeing guys do it and have a lot of success with it and wondering like, how, what more can we do to make this, you know, easier of a transition? [00:29:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:45] Speaker A: Four kids into college because that like you could find your to be that guy that's not gonna happen to me. And then all of a sudden it's like, well, I just got cut. What do I do? Like, or why? How do I fix this? Like, you know, we're playing a live game here. There's people, there's a batter, there's an umpire, there's fans. Like we talked about it before, like, go play at Alex box and yikes, you will see what's up. Or a M. When they're chanting ball 16. [00:30:17] Speaker C: You know, I might start chatting that if I'm sitting there, right. But honestly, I, I think it's funny you bring that up because it's, you know, there's a lot of new school thought and it's a lot of. It's scientific based and it's like, honestly, it's right. If you watch it, the way we train hitters and the way we train pitchers is 10 times is totally different than how it used to 15 years ago. Because there's data and there's scientific data behind it. The crazy thing is, if you could mesh the old school coach mentality with the new school mind, like, everybody's trying to fight each other. Like, why don't you just converge them? Because that's. You're going to get the best version of what we're looking for in baseball in general, you know, where it's not just all analytics and data. It's not all just, hey, you know, get your foot down and you know, whatever. It's. We're, we're taking information because every kid now wants to know why, how do. Why am I doing this? What's the reasoning? Well, we have information to tell you why, and then we can tell you what's real versus what you're actually feeling too. But being able to just merge those two worlds, the guys that are doing that right now are the ones that are having the most success. You know, the guys can really crew, but the guys that get in player development, those guys that can merge both, those are the ones you look up and they're playing, you know, for a long time, you know, on into June, in late June. So. But I, yeah, like, that's the stuff. Like, I love the game. Like, to me that my, my most enjoyable moments as a coach is after we finish inner squatting or playing and I've got notes down and we can go back and coach them on the things that have happened versus just going, man, he can't do this or he can't do that. Well, you know, like old, an old ball coach told me a long time ago you can get guys to do anything. You just can't get them to do everything. So what is the most important things and get them to do it because they'll do it. If you just hold them accountable, they will do it. You know, and I think that's where, you know, a lot of coaches now, they just, well, I just can't do this or we can't do that. We're not good enough. And well, yeah, you are because you've said that like you've already put spoke that into existence. You know, what, what makes your program good or what makes this team good or what makes that individual the player he needs to be. And like, like words of affirmation into him to enforce him to do it because he'll end up doing it. Because they all want to, they all want to play, they want to be on the field, you know, they're going to do what they want to do to get on the field to play. So. But I think, yeah, I think once they mesh the two, to me, that's the thing, like everybody's arguing back and forth over this, that, well, you know, guys are different, hitters are different. Some are aerial, some are terrestrial, you know, some, some scissor more than other, like their natural movements. But if you know how to coach them and help them, well, they can be the best version themselves, you know. [00:33:17] Speaker B: So I think it's, it's an interesting time with all the data because to your point, I think the guys who are doing it really well, you can use that data to highlight things that you value. Right. Like it, it's powerful when you can put up on a, on a whiteboard data that shows, like, this is why we do this thing in practice. This is why this is important for us. Because when we do this really well, we win this many games, or you get down to the player level and you start to be able to show them stuff that the data either validates, hey, this is why you're good, or this is a gap that we can try to close. And here's the data that's showing us that maybe some swing decision stuff, you know, you're talking about pitch locations, pitch mix. Like I think some of the best pitching guys out there, what they're really good at is figuring out what guys do well. [00:34:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:12] Speaker B: And then asking them to do the stuff that they do well and not trying to fit them into a cookie cutter in terms of, well, we're going to throw, you know, arm side fastballs. Well, if that guy can't get to armside consistently, why are we throwing that pitch? Or if he has a really good breaking ball that he can glove strike, like, maybe we need to pitch off of that more than his fastball and not. Not stick to this kind of cookie cutter mentality that we grew up with. [00:34:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:39] Speaker B: Which was just hit the fastball, just throw the fastball, and it's like, well, okay, it's not wrong, but when the guy who's pitching throws 48, 82 mile an hour snapdragons, like, sometimes we got to look for that slider. [00:34:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:58] Speaker B: And now you have the data. Like, now you have the data to. To try to close that gap and get. That's what I miss. The. The mental side of it. And being able to help hitters make better decisions and be able to connect with them in terms of different verbiage. [00:35:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:15] Speaker B: Like, how does a kid respond to different language? And what do they do really well? Let's make sure that we don't ever take that away from them. [00:35:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:23] Speaker B: And, you know, maybe we make a couple tweaks here and there. But to your point, if a kid is a guy who naturally kind of has that scissor kick action, or he's somebody who's a tall hitter who's going to get into his front side a little bit. Well, if he does that and he does it really well, just because it might not align with what you look at on the video, it's like a perfect swing. I think sometimes the really good coaches are the ones who choose not to change somebody, and you let them do what they do really well. And I think that's what all the information that we have and the trackman and the synergy and you got all the mocap stuff in the force plates. And I think it takes a special coach to be able to use that information in a way that's digestible and not just a cookie cutter approach and figuring out how does that data actually help the individual. And I think that's what you're getting at with calling hidden coordinators and pitching coordinators and saying, hey, like, let's sit down and chop this up. I want to hear what you guys do. Because that might be the difference between your junior guy blowing up as a senior and that kid just having another year. That's okay. [00:36:28] Speaker C: 100%. I mean, there's, you know, there's a lot of really good pitching organizations, like, guys that do a really good job, like, and hitting organizations, guys, they have a plan. And, like, this is how we're developing our hitters. And you See, a lot of those guys get to the big leagues probably a year too soon because they've performed, you know, and it's like, are they ready to get there? Probably not. But, man, they have made so many strides along the way. They're in the big leagues. And, you know, I think that's, to me, the more information you have, the better. To me, information, like information, knowledge is, is money and power. The more, you know, the more you can help guys get better. And that goes for recruiting, too. Like, we're recruiting guys. There's certain guys I know that, like, I don't do a good job of helping them from a hitting side or a pitching side. So, like, yeah, we could recruit them and they might be the best available in our area, but how much better are we going to get them? Like, it's going to be a total letdown that this guy doesn't become the player he wants to be because maybe I don't have the tool. Tool set to help him get there, you know, And I think that's where, you know, learning as much as you can will help you be able to reach as many of them as you can when you get them. Because we're not going to get, we just aren't at Tarleton. We're not getting the, the, the already made big leaguer or the guy that, like, if he just stands upright for three years, he's going to pit, he's going to get drafted, top five rounds, go play. We're going to get a young man that probably is, you know, uber athletic, maybe a late bloomer that is just scratching the surface of what they're going to be. But they're going to need the roadmap, and it's not a big book. You just give somebody and go, here's the roadmap to get the big leagues now, man, it's messy. Like, you're going to have to do a lot of FMS screening. You're going to have to, you're going to have to look at the way they move in certain, certain drill orientations to figure out how they're, how they need to actually hit. And, you know, you look up two years, maybe they've gotten stronger, more physical, and they're moving differently now, you know, and I think that's, that's the cool thing about college is, you know, we're, we're turning into a lot of it. We're turning into like the, the minor league system, you know, and I think a lot of the, the owners in the big leagues probably want it that way because they don't spend as much money and we're doing a lot of the legwork for them, you know, if they get to that level. [00:38:44] Speaker B: So on some of the, some of the setups that are out there now in the technology that's available, honestly if you're 18 years old, if you're not going to get a ton of money going to colleges, it's a better lifestyle. You, you're, it's, it's a different lifestyle. Like competition matters a lot more than when you're in the, you know, the Florida State League and you're playing at noon on August 1st and it's 100 degrees out and you're out there trying to, to develop and the consequences of competition art is important. So like you're stepping into an environment where wins and losses matter a lot more. But when you talk about the development that you can get, and I mean, you said it, there's college guys who are going to pro ball, but there's a lot of pro guys that are moving over to the college game because they've realized that if you're really interested in getting into the weeds with a kid and developing a kid, sometimes the college game is where it's at. Now. There's some restrictions in terms of how much time you can spend with the kid, but it's a different environment and for some guys, they gravitate towards that setup and really trying to make a difference in an 18, 19, 20, 21 year old kid. But the college game right now is just, you turn on the regionals like and we watch way more college baseball than we probably should. But just the talent that's out there, the speed of the game, the composure of the kids. I mean when you flip on, you know, one of these regional games, you just watch how an 18 year old it was the North Carolina Arizona regional final two freshmen on the mound and those kids didn't bat an eye. And I was just blown away at how mature and composed some of these kids are these days and, and the game is, has evolved and I think it's in a beautiful spot right now. For sure. [00:40:37] Speaker C: I agree. And it's, it's only going to, I think it's only going to get better. I really do. Because you're seeing it. You know, you look at teams this year that were even mid major, teams that made it super regionals and obviously skirk at Murray, you know, friend of mine, like getting to Omaha, I mean those are the cool stories. But like I'm guessing if you ask Him. And I don't know this for a fact, but a lot of. Maybe a lot of his guys weren't highly recruited, you know, and they had to develop them. And, you know, it's perfect storm. But a lot of older guys that were in the program bought in, like, wanted to win together. It was more of a brotherhood. And I think that's where. I think that's the neat thing about college baseball. That's. That's what makes it different. You won't. You go to professional baseball. It's great. It's awesome. Like, it's everybody's dream. But when you look back, you know, on the memories, the relationships, you know, maybe meeting your wife, who knows? But, like, that's. That's a true, true brotherhood. You don't get that a lot after you leave college. You know, those are the guys that are in weddings. Those are the guys that are, you know, you call if you ever need help. You know, those. Those are like your. Your brothers for life. And I think that's what's the neat part about it. And even in an environment where the transfer portal guys are bouncing back and forth, I think you keep continuity like that amongst. Amongst brothers. Like, you can do a lot of special things. [00:42:00] Speaker B: Yeah, you get kids pulling in the same direction, and that's definitely different from pro ball, where, you know, obviously those guys want to win and everybody wants to win, but each individual guy in a pro system has the aspirations to get into the big leagues. When you're on campus playing for you, you're trying to. You're trying to get into the conference tournament first and foremost, and then you're trying to win that thing. Like everybody's. You kind of got one goal, and that's a unique environment to be a part of. And, you know, we're as players, me and Keith experience that together, and, you know, we're able to, you know, get to a regional and, you know, you don't. That stuff never goes away. [00:42:38] Speaker C: How many memories you guys have from that group. You know, that's the thing. [00:42:42] Speaker B: Still cracking jokes on the dumb stuff that was said. Like, I mean, it's. It's 20 years and, you know, we still got running jokes and text message changed with old players, and it's. It's hard to put a price on what that experience is and, you know, kind of to take this full circle. Like, junior college can be the route for so many kids to get them to have that experience. To a certain extent, you kind of get to do it twice. [00:43:10] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, now they're they're giving guys an extra year and who knows, maybe in a year from now, those two years don't even count. You'll, I mean, we don't know for certain. You know, the NCAA has changed the rules so many times and with lawsuits and everything else, you know, I think at some point they'll probably settle on like five years to play five no matter where, what level. But, you know, like right now we've got one, two, see three, you know, three guys that, you know, we're all conference players that like have another year to come play and they're coming back to play another year here because of junior college. And I think that's the, that's the neat part. You know, they, they get to, they get one more, one more, you know, year in the sun, so to speak, and who knows, they'll probably, you know, maybe all three of them will be playing professional baseball because they're all willing and capable and a lot, you know, they were just kind of late bloomers and so I think it's just neat. I think, I think it's, the game is, is good and junior college, yeah, it's a great route for a lot of guys, especially guys that aren't, aren't where they need to be physically. I think it gives you time to play against guys that are your age versus, you know, having to, having to, you know, get as physical as fast as you can in order to compete at the Division 1 level. Because you turn on TV and watch a lot of these games. I mean, they're, you know, every, every pitcher, six, three, 210 pounds. And most hitters are six foot or bigger and 200 pounds. Like, they're just physical. They're, it's a different game. They don't look like I, I don't look like we, we look anymore. They're, they're, they're grown men. And so I think for you, just finding, finding your level, I think is the most important thing because you can always level up. You know, you can, you know, it used to you, you would level down. You know, now you can level up if you want. And I think that's the cool part about it. [00:45:04] Speaker A: So when you, when you recruit in. [00:45:07] Speaker B: The juco stuff, when, when do you start to bear down on guys for. So say you're recruiting for next fall. When do you really start to get in the weeds with kicking the tires on junior college kids? Like, what's the timing of that look like for you guys? [00:45:24] Speaker C: Well, the neat thing is we've already like we're already starting on the junior college right now. Like we, we've targeted X amount of guys and like we're full tilt on them. We're going to see them here in the next, you know, probably week and a half to two weeks. And we've got about a month window to watch them. But the neat thing is a lot of the guys that we've seen are recruiting now. We recruited in high school, we've seen them develop, you know, from their junior year to their senior year to their freshman year to their sophomore year. And so we've seen the growth exponentially over three or four years. And you know, maybe they've gotten a little bit better every year, but they're performing in junior college. That's a pretty sure fire bet. Like if there's certain criteria they meet for us, they're probably going to be just fine when they get here. And we already have a relationship with them because we've recruited them before and they just weren't quite ready or we didn't have the need at the time. Maybe we were full in that spot. But to me that's where, you know, we're able to, we have way more information on those guys as well because you can go back and look like high school guys. You go look, you go see it. You get two looks in the summer from a lot of guys, especially guys in the Ivy League. They're going to get two looks and hey, we got to make a decision on this guy. He's athletic enough unless, you know, seems like a great kid, background checks out. But like, do you really, really know anything about him? You know, like yeah, call the high school coach and check stat lines and find out what mom and dad are like and you know, what brothers and sister, you know, brother sisters, not. But junior college, like we've already done that. Now we're just watching him grow and mature as men and going, yeah, that guy's ready, like he's ready to play for us right now, you know. And so I think that's the cool thing is like we've had a lot of success, especially in Texas, but when I was at UTA Sam Houston, a lot of guys that, that we took out of junior college that maybe weren't quite ready yet for the Power 4 level, but we got them for one year and they got drafted and now they're playing professional baseball. So like we, we had target him for a while. We knew what we were getting and we knew how we could help them. So as soon as they got here we, we Kind of had an idea this is how we're going to get him to that next level. [00:47:30] Speaker B: So that, that track record is. It's a much cleaner evaluation. Right. There's so much more data because you, you bring up a good point. Shoot. Even at William and Mary, where we really tried to, to do a lot of homework on guys in the state of Virginia, being a state school, you try to go see guys so you can get that picture, but you got to paint a picture of what you think a guy is in 15 to 18 at bats sometimes stuff. And you can miss in either direction. We've all had those guys where you just go see him on the wrong day and you just never come back. Because it's just like, I didn't, he didn't fire me up that day. Like, I get why he's going somewhere else, but like, you see somebody on a day and he's just not quite as good as you were hoping he was going to be. And sometimes you, you turn and you look for somebody else. But with, with the junior college stuff, you've got to your point, hundreds of at bats and now you've got the physical evaluation, now you've got the character evaluation and you start to look at him go, okay, like all of this adds up now. And we didn't do a ton of junior college stuff. When I was at William Mary. We did bring in a kid from the west coast who's a, he's a St. John's bounce back handed up out in Arizona. And we ended up bringing him in, but it was a super unique case because we ended up losing a guy early. We need to go find a guy. But I've always been interested by the junior college baseball because of that, that these kids get to play so much. [00:49:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:05] Speaker B: In the development track is you see massive, massive changes in these kids because they play so much baseball. [00:49:13] Speaker C: Yeah. And you can, you can go to junior college. And honestly it's. If you just said, hey, we're going to go play and it's going to be a sandlot pickup game every day. They're going to get better. You know, you're going to work out, go to school and like, they will get better because they're playing. I think the crazy thing too is you look at like scouting, like how many cross checkers and regional cross checkers miss on guys in the top five rounds every year. Like, a lot. Like how many guys don't get to the big leagues. So at 18, 19, and now you're starting to look like a lot of orgs now they're signing. Hey, majority of the hitters were taken. We're taken out of college because there's a track record, you know, so a lot of the stuff you're seeing, you know, in pro ball, you know, you know, like success leaves clues. You're seeing how they're doing. Like maybe, maybe some of these programs should operate this way. Or maybe if I'm a player, maybe I should do that because it'll give me my best chance for success at the next level. And yeah, there's some works that still, hey, heavy, heavy high school on the arms or, or whatnot. But especially from a hitting standpoint like you, you guys would evaluate and recruit guys will going to watch a sophomore because used to you could sign them as up, you know, freshman year. Well, you know, the big boys, like when they sign a guy as a freshman, he's probably pretty good. He's going to be just fine. There's a good chance. But if you're not in the top 50 players in the country, that guy hasn't seen 89 to 92 miles an hour every day. You've been, you've been evaluating him hitting 84 to 86. How's he going to handle velocity? Do we even know? Like, is it even going to translate? And a lot of times that's where you see the, the guy that like, hey, he, he was a freshman or sophomore and he just plateaued. Maybe because he committed and stopped working or. Yeah, he just, maybe he just was. He peaked, you know, earlier than most of the kids at his age. But I think the track record helps, you know, in, in, you know, litigating the Mrs. Because that's the thing you don't want to. The last thing you want to do as a coach is miss on a guy because from a talent standpoint and a personality standpoint, you want to make sure when you're, you're on board and you're signing off on kid, like it's going to fit and it's going to work. And I think that's where you know, like the junior College or Division 2 or wherever it helps us, you know, understand like, hey, this is what he is. And I think you're seeing a lot of the, the blue bloods now. They're, they're going after performers like these guys that bonafide can be a top 10 rounder, but he's a performer. Like he's going to help us win. Let's go sign that guy, you know, and you're seeing a lot of that. [00:51:43] Speaker A: Now, so he brought it up at. [00:51:46] Speaker B: The beginning about finding the right kid for you. Right. And your guys set up where you're located, the type of school it is. Obviously you have somewhat of a type that you're looking for in terms of the athlete, but you brought it up a couple of times about the character piece. How do you tease that out? What's your process to figure out, both on the field and off the field, if a kid's going to be a right fit for you guys? [00:52:16] Speaker C: Yeah, I think you got to watch it, you know, I think you got to see him. I actually like to watch guys when they fail, and that sounds terrible, but I like to see how they handle it. Because you'll see some guys, they don't handle it well. It doesn't mean they won't at some point see how their parents act. To me, that's a big one. Like the apple never falls far from the tree, you know, and that, that's where conversations that we have with parents and, and kids, you can ask pointed questions and find out real quick, you know, what they're all about. And it's not personal. It's just we need to do our background on, on the type of kid we're bringing in. Because honestly, if you're not the right fit, I don't want you here. And you won't want to be here either. You know, be a. It'd be a bad marriage. So to me, watching them and evaluating them and just being on the phone with them and kind of a disarming environment, you know, just allows us to just be real, you know, because I don't, I'm gonna, I'll ask him straight up what I, what I want to know, you know, and, you know, sometimes they give me the right answer, sometimes they don't. But a lot of time it's just a gut feel and, you know, we'll do background with a kid on the high school coach. Like we call every high school coach. Every kid's on a roster. We've talked to at least one or two high school coaches because they're with them every day. They know how mom and dad act. You know, they may not have had a run in with a travel coach, they might have had a high school coach. We'll at least know what we're, what we're in for. You know, occasionally we'll, we'll pop in and watch a practice when they don't think we're going to be there or they show up to game when they don't Think we're going to be there and maybe not be wearing flying the colors just to see, you know, how they, how they handle themselves when no one's around. Because I think that's true. Tested characters, how you act when you, you know, when no one's around or when you don't think anybody's around. So. [00:54:06] Speaker A: I think it's huge. Like, there's no. I learned that from Coach Rossi, who I coached for at Siena, who coached for 54 years at Siena, I don't know, longer than all of us have been alive. [00:54:22] Speaker C: He's seen it all. [00:54:24] Speaker A: Yes, but like, it was so true where like, if we went to like, if we went to like Diamond Nation, which is a huge complex up here in the Northeast, or you go recruiting that way, like you had to wear Sienna stuff, like you went to a local game or you were going to, like we were going to check in on someone. Like, you don't wear anything. Like, go incognit. Don't let anyone know that you're there. And let's just. I want to see what, what he's like if he doesn't know that we're there. And when I was younger, I was like, what did. Like, why can't I just do this all the time? But like, when I became a head coach, I was like, no, this makes a ton of sense. Like I've, I completely understand where we're coming from here and why we're doing this. And there's, there is a lot of truth to it. Like you can really find out what they are when no one's watching or when they don't think anyone's watching, I should say. And I think the other thing too, that is very true is that it's. I don't think that it's terrible to say you like to see when people fail because that like they're going to fail when they get to school. And what is that response? Like, like, do you bow your neck and try to get the next guy out after giving up a two run double? Or, you know, do you throw your hands up because you thought the center fielder should have caught it and you're pissed off at the world because that ain't going to fly when you get to college. Like someone is probably, you might come to blows in a dugout if you do that in an inner squad as a freshman. Like, yo, you ain't throwing your hands up at me. Like, don't give up piss missiles all over the yard, man. Like, I don't know what to tell you. And, you know, but I, I, I. There's a lot of truth to that. And I think that from a recruiting standpoint, like, we've talked about a lot. You're probably the first one to, like, outright say it. Andy and I have talked about, like, you can discern a lot more information on days when guys fail. Like, guys that you really like and, like, you might walk away being like, no, that's the guy that I do really like. Like, I've seen him be really good. I've seen him be not so good. But he handled everything the exact same way. And, like, there's a sense of toughness to that kid that, like, I can coach that kid and if I got to get into him or I can, like, whatever I have to do to get it out of him, I know that I can do it. Whereas, yeah, if it's not there, it's like, yo, I don't know. And I think, I think it goes back to what you were talking about earlier, about knowing what works in your program and your coaching style. Like, it comes with the maturity of doing it, but also that might not fit you. So if it's not going to, like, it doesn't mean that. And we talk about this with kids all the time. Like, it's not. Doesn't mean you're not a good player. It just means you don't fit well in that program, which I'd like, you'd rather know on the front end, because if you got there, you're likely going to be like, damn, Coach Glasser is just. He's all over me. Or coach, you know, Coach Smith is just wearing me out left and right. And it's like, yeah, man. Like, this is just my style. And if you can't handle it, I'm not changing for you because 33 other guys can hack it. So jump in the portal and like, but. And that's just the truth. Like, it's not. I don't, I don't say that to be mean or. But it's just the reality. Like, you get to a point in your career, it's like, this is my coaching style. This is how it is. If I don't feel like we're going to be able to get the most out of this kid, then we should pass on him because there's other kids out there that are just as good or, you know, a tick below that we can get more out of because he's going to fit our coaching style better in this program. [00:57:49] Speaker C: Well, that's it. That's it. There's like, you know, you talk about like the program. You know, we don't have like acronyms for the program. You know, a lot of schools and that's like, they kind of have like, this is our pillars. And I said, well, we have pillars, but like different years. Some pillars are emphasized more than others. You know, like this pillar is like what they need versus this pillar. And you know, a lot of times it's just, you know, it's the guys and their personalities. But there'll be times, Keith, where I'll, I like, I love going to watch games. One of my favorite things to do is evaluate. And I'll really like a kid but like he just, he's not going to get out of second gear. Like sometimes I'll call him, go, hey, listen, I'm coming to watch you tomorrow, Keith. And if you don't play with your hair on fire, like I'm out, man. And I don't care what you do on the field, I don't care how, how you perform. Like, I've already seen that. Like, I want to see if I, if I tell you to do something, will you actually do it? You know, and that to me, that's another thing. Like a lot of guys are scared just to say it. They're scared they're not going to get the guy. Well, if you get the guy and he's not fit, then it ain't going to work anyway. You might as well find out right now if this guy's going to be a fit or not, you know, because then day it's either going to be miserable for both of you or maybe it's going to be a really fun ride for the next three or four years. [00:59:10] Speaker A: And I, I think the thing too is that there's. You can play as much summer ball as you want and high school, whatever, but you're not going to go through a season in college. You've never done it before. No. And the sheer amount of time that you are going to spend with each other is something that is hard to contextualize when you've never done it before. You, you're talking about taking flights and bus rides and for hours on end with the Same people for 19 to 20 plus weeks you spending in. Or that's just the season. That's not even the fall. That's not practice. That's the weight room. None of that. Like you spend a ton of time with each other and if it's not going, if you're not going to mesh well, it's not going to end well. So I'm with you. Like, I would rather find out early on in the process of like, hey, I don't know if, like, I don't think it's going to work with this specific player. I think it is here, but the low motor, like, I mean, I think it's probably one of Andy's highest pet peeves in the world of having a low motor like, it is. I was texting the other day. I was at a high school game a couple of weeks ago. There was a team and I'm not like, you don't have to sprint on and off the field for me, but like, we were professional pace walking on the field and I was like, yo, there's just no motor in any of that. Like, there's like, what if I showed. If I was coaching, I showed up this game like, I wouldn't stay past the second inning. Like, there's just no. We're just literally walking and I'm like, just give me something. [01:00:47] Speaker C: But has anybody said anything? That's the question. Did anybody say anything? Like, so you are what you tolerate, like, correct. Are you gonna, are you gonna allow it to happen or are you gonna, are you gonna change it? So, right, like, if somebody would say something, maybe. [01:01:01] Speaker A: I knew, I knew we had flipped. Not that our culture was bad, but we had a, a couple years where we were down when I took over and I knew we had flipped it. When I had a rule, I stole it from Coach Baretti at Columbia. Said this before where in practice, in coach, pitch in inner squads, whatever. If you popped up, you had to touch second. It was non negotiable. You were going too out of the box. You had to go. And we had a sophomore who didn't do it, which, you know, you, you're not a sophomore at that point in time. You've done this plenty of times and are like, we had like seven guys jump them. Like, I didn't have to say a word. Seven dudes jumped them. They were like, yo, we run hard out of the box and we touch second on all those, like. And I was like, okay, we've. We're moving in the right direction now that we have one of 37 that isn't doing it and the other. There's nine dudes at least that are willing to hold you to account for what it is that we do. And it's. Look, it's. Is it a kind of dumb rule? Yeah, it is. But like, there's intent behind it. And if I'm asking you to do It. And I find that it's important I want you to do it because there's that one time that you're not going to do it in game and that ball isn't going to be caught. And you're either going to get thrown out at first and then be sitting next to me on the bench, or you're going to look like an idiot because the ball fell and we didn't do anything. And then you're likely going to find yourself sitting next to me on the bench when you come off the end. But, like, it's that one time that it doesn't happen. And I think that there's. There's a lot of truth to all of these things that, like, you know. Yeah. I. I think it's awesome. Call a kid yo play with you. Like, play with a high motor tomorrow. Like, it's Andy's biggest pet peeve. I think, like, guys drive Andy nuts. [01:02:50] Speaker B: Yeah. It drives me crazy. Like, and maybe it's because I had to be a play hard to be competitive. [01:02:55] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. [01:02:56] Speaker B: Like, that was how like you, you. You talk about, like, the apple not falling that far from the tree that was required of me when I was a kid is like, hey, you're out here. Like, you play hard. Like, you play hard. You play to win. You have fun doing it. Like, I always had fun playing, but I. [01:03:13] Speaker C: You. [01:03:13] Speaker B: You play hard, and I always have. I always had trouble with guys with low motors because to me, it was just. It's the one thing that you can control every day. Yeah, just playing hard, being present. Like, being excited. Like, you know, in you get to college baseball, if you're not excited to put those spikes on and go and work, it's going to be tough, man. Yeah, it's going to be tough because the guys who are successful and success is defined a lot of different ways. Like, it doesn't mean that you go play pro ball, but guys who are successful, they're good teammates. They. They end up having good careers. They're the guys that you think of ten years from now. Like, I remember that guy that I coached at Sam Houston, you know, like, that kid played his ass off. Great kid. That stuff to me is just. It's so simple. And if you, if you can't do that, college baseball is going to be a grind for you. And it shouldn't be a grind in that way. It should be a grind because you enjoy working hard, not pulling teeth to get somebody to be excited to be on a field. [01:04:23] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, if you look at it like, that's. We tell our guys all the time, it's three hours a day. Like, three hours of your day, 24 hours a day. You're out here on this field, and in four years or maybe tomorrow, you might not be able to do this again. So, like, empty the tank when you're here. Because you know what? You're going to go home, you're going to get some rest, you're going to eat, and you're going to wake up the next day and you're going to feel just fine, ready to go again. But at some point, that window is going to close, and you don't want to look up and have wasted three years of high school or four years of high school, two or three years of college, and look up and go, man, where did the time go? And what happened with my quote unquote baseball career? Like, today is today. Like, you. You know, what you do today is the only thing that matters. And to me, like, like, go full tilt, empty the tank, and, like, jump over the edge head first. And then when it's over, it's over. Like, when I. When I leave the yard, I'm done. Like, I got my arm around one of the guys and we're telling jokes, but, like, for those three hours, we're out there in the hour we're in the weight room, like, everybody's putting in the same amount of time. The difference is, what, how are you doing that? Like, how. How are you doing it? Is it with a focus, a tenacity, or is it just, I'm here, I'm checking the box today, you know, because there's days where you don't want to be, you don't feel like it, or there's something going on at the house. But, man, you get to play baseball. How many guys get to do that? Especially now. Like, especially now. So to me, that's the. I. I don't know why you don't love it. Like, that's why I'm coaching, because I can't do it, you know? Like, there's guys I play with are still playing. Like, I'm almost 40 years old. Like, they're still. They're still living the dream, man. Like. Like, this is. This is the most excited I've been every I get every year. Like, we start practicing two days, man, I'm fired up. Like, wish we could go tonight. So. [01:06:23] Speaker B: Hell yeah. Well, closer question for you, if you were going to impart some wisdom onto families, players that are going through this recruiting process, give them some food for Thought some things to close this out in terms of some potential advice. [01:06:42] Speaker C: I get a couple things, and it's. This goes for life, too. So I think parents can understand this. Don't compare yourself to someone else, you know, don't compare your life or what you have to someone else, your marriage to what? Like, don't compare your sons or the. The players journey to someone else's. Because everybody's is different. Everybody develops different. Everybody matures at a different rate, physically, mentally. So the more you get caught up in that, the worse it'll be for you. Because those are things that you cannot control, you know, you can't control. If Tarleton State's gonna offer you a scholarship, you can't. Like, honestly, you can't. I'm the one or one of our sisters one that's going to offer the scholarship. But what you can control today is how you get better, what you're doing today with your time to improve as an athlete and as a baseball player, you know, and so the more you start worrying about those things, you'll look up and you'll be where you want to be. It's just like when you guys were playing Division 1 baseball and coaching it. You guys have seen it. How many guys, when it comes to their draft year, all they're worried about is the draft. That's all they're worried about. Instead of worrying about this pitch right now, instead of worrying about this moment in time and hanging out and having dinner with the boys after a Friday night game, like, that's what you should be worrying about. Because you'll look up and like, this journey that you really wanted to enjoy, it's gone. Like, you missed the whole point of it. It's not about the destination. It is about the journey you're going on to get to where you want to go. Because it won't be easy. Like, some guys will. They'll get humbled. Some guys won't get to where they want to. To start, but it's waking up every day, just continue to. To grow, you know, grind, quote, unquote, grind at it and work at it until you get what you want. And that's life. That's why baseball's so cool. That is like the epitome of life. And I think a lot of parents can relate to that because they have to do it every day. A lot of kids don't see it because they're all worried about the new shiny thing. And I think, to me, when you get, you know, engulfed in that, you'll get to where you want to go. It may not be exactly where you want to be at the moment, but you will max out every bit of your athletic ability and you'll find a spot where you can actually be successful. [01:09:13] Speaker B: Okay, well, well said coach. [01:09:15] Speaker C: Well said. [01:09:16] Speaker B: It's a good way to close this thing out. [01:09:19] Speaker C: I've enjoyed it guys. It's been fun. [01:09:22] Speaker B: Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube go ahead. [01:09:25] Speaker A: And hit that subscribe button and smash. [01:09:28] Speaker B: That like button for us. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram MD Baseball. If you want to find out what me and Kim help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check us out on emdbaseball. Com. Take a few minutes to check out our new online academy. I promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening. Check in with you next week.