Episode 114: Camps and Showcase Events

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome to this week's edition of Dugout Dish podcast. As usual, I am joined by my wonderful co host, Keith Glasser. Keith, how we doing? [00:00:19] Speaker A: Great. How are you? [00:00:21] Speaker B: I'm good, man. Excited to take on today's topic. Hopefully we can spread a little bit of knowledge to the, to the listeners here. Today's topic we're going to talk about showcases, camps, clinics and break that down, different types of camps when guys are ready, value in different, different ones. I know we both have our stances on the value of a few of these, so I think we'll, we'll get it, we'll get it started here. I'll kick it over to you to, to kick start this conversation. [00:00:52] Speaker A: Yeah, the, you know, the first one we'll talk about tonight is just the straight up kind of on campus camps that pretty much every single school in the country is going to have, right? They're going to have multiple camps. Some are going to be, you know, most of them are probably going to be in the fall. But you know, there are summer camps, there's going to be fall, there's some winter ones. You know, the big thing and I think, you know, you and I agree on this. The, the on campus camp is probably the best one out there to go to for multiple reasons. One, it has the built in school visit, you know, so you're going to get on campus, you're going to visit, you're going to be able to walk around the campus. Most camps nowadays do come with campus tours and such, but on the flip side, you know, I think some people out there will actually set things up with admissions and you could always go through admissions yourself as well. So you have that built in campus visit. You're going to work directly with the staff that is actually coaching at that school. So you're going to get a really good feel for. Is this staff a staff that I could see myself being coached by? Do I fit with them? You know, we've had guys on, you know, like Supes and some other people, you know, Traz and just saying like, you know, there's sometimes like one, you're going to spend a lot of time with me and two, like I might not be the right fit for some guys and being able to kind of figure that out in an on campus camp is, is invaluable for you because you can have all that information in front of you. You might not fit well with a certain coaching staff or a certain coaching style, whatever it might be, it might not be the best fit for you. And Being able to figure that out in an on campus camp is great. You're going to get feedback, which is one of the other big ones. You know, one of the biggest things in the recruiting process that you need to have is honest feedback from people on where your skill set lines up. You know, if you go to X camp and let's say It's a Division 1 camp and they don't recruit you and you get some feedback and they're like, hey, like this is where we see you at. You know, you're going to get an honest opinion of what that coaching staff kind of where they see you fitting in, where you are right now, you know, which is you need to be able to go through the recruiting process and be honest with yourself so you can find the right fit academically and athletically for you. Some of these on campus camps, like some of the division ones, are going to have other coaches working it. You know, I always worked Columbia camp. I worked some other camps out there as well, you know, so I know that there's some of those camps, you know, it's not going to be all the time, but, you know, it's worth asking the question, like, what other coaches are going to be there? You'll meet the players too. You know, usually when I was coaching, I would have my players work it, you know, the players will give you a brutally honest answer about what goes on in that program at the school, everything, you know, so it's a, it's a good way to kind of get a lot of information on a school in a day or two setting that you might not otherwise do. You know, the other part. And I think it's probably going to get curved a little bit more with the new rule. But you know, a lot of people used to always be like, well, I feel like it's a money grab because every time we email them, they say, you know, come to camp. Well, under the old rules, like that was the only thing they could email you if you were an underclassman. Yeah, know, hey, come to camp. They could only have camp correspondence with you. So that's why, you know, I think some people have that misnomer and myth about what the on campus camp, there's, there's so much value in them and it's generally going to be one of the least expensive options out there for you. You're going to get so much more out of it than you'll ever put into it. And for those, you know, for that reason, those reasons, you know, I've always said, and you do? Like it's. It's the best thing for you to do. [00:04:38] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the idea that these are money grabs, like. Yes. Do some programs help fund their assistance in different areas of their program with the money that they generate from camp? Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, I can speak to it. Having worked at William and Mary, like we, we flat out recruited out of those camps. Sometimes it was. To your point, we would use that as a mechanism to get to know a kid. Maybe it's the final piece of the evaluation. It's got that built in campus visit, you know, you get a chance to meet the kid, you get a chance to figure out how they take coaching, how they interact with other players, you know, so that's a huge piece of it. But the other. We'd have kids come to camp that we'd never seen before, and sometimes that led us to go do more homework on guys. And I mean, we. I don't know what the exact numbers were. You know, I see guys post, you know, 40% of our roster. Like, I don't know how true all that is, but to say I would, I would venture to guess that every single school has multiple kids that have come to one of their camps before. And it is a legitimate way that coaches recruit. The other piece that I think is it's going to increase the value of these camps is the contact rule. The change in that coaches can't have those phone calls prior to August 1st heading into the players junior year. So for 25, you know that contact's been cut off as of April 26th. [00:06:05] Speaker A: You. [00:06:06] Speaker B: Those can't become one of the only mechanisms you have to have any kind of interaction or interface with the kid. And the tough thing about the new rule, I think it's going to make the player evaluation a little bit easier because you're going to have more time to see a guy. You don't have to worry about somebody coming in and scooping the kid up with a big offer. You get a little bit. There's a little bit less pressure to make a decision on the kid and you're going to get more information to make that decision. If you get to see a pitcher throw three times, four times instead of once, or a position player take 20, 25 at bats instead of maybe only see them play one game and you know, you get a good recommendation from a coach. Right. We all know that guys try to jump on really talented kids early, so I think some of that's going to get curved. But having talked to a bunch of different Coaches, they are actively trying to schedule more on campus camps this summer for exactly that reason. And the thing that I think is really important for players and parents is, yes, these are incredibly valuable. And I think me and you both are on the same wavelength with this, that I think the on campus camps are. They're awesome for a multitude of reasons that you touched on, but I think it's really important for players and parents to have an honest evaluation of where you fit in the college baseball landscape so you can go to camps that are going to be effective for you. Right? You need to understand, do I fit at this specific level? Do I fit at this specific level? Do I fit in a program like this? And if you do, if you have this skill set that is going to allow you to be a recruitable player at that particular camp, at that particular program, or that particular level of college baseball, then those camps can be worth every penny that you spend to go there because you get an opportunity to interact with that staff. You get that on coast visit, you get to showcase in front of them in a more intimate environment than maybe a showcase where there's 200 kids at it. And you need to do something pretty special to stick out. So, you know, with the new change, you know, and I guess this goes back to kind of the fundamentals that we talk about all the time is like being informed, right? You need to have somebody or someone in your corner who's going to tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear, right? If you're not a guy who can play in the acc, probably don't need to be spending money to fly down to Georgia Tech's camp because you think you want to play for the Yellow Jackets. Well, if you're not that type of player, you're just wasting a bunch of money to fly down to Georgia Tech where maybe there's another school that's a little bit closer to you from home that you don't have to fly to, and you fit better there from an athletic perspective, take advantage of those, those opportunities. But I love them. And, you know, you get seen by other coaches. Like these coaches bring on a bunch of other schools that aren't really a recruiting threat, but schools that are looking for really talented players. And, you know, you get that chance to interact. So it's, it's my favorite way for a guy to get exposure. If they do it the right way, I think it can be really valuable, you know, and then you got, you know, kind of the natural flow into this is like those Invite opportunities. And I think that, you know, on the scale of exposure opportunities, the invite stuff is kind of the next big thing. Like, you know, if you're a younger guy and you get the, you know, you're talented enough to go play in, you know, the Garden State games or you get invited to the New York or New Jersey or name whatever random state, you know, PBR State games or the Futures Games, like those are really good opportunities and you know, they're a little bit more selective in terms of the players that can go there and. Yeah, are they going to cost money? They are, but it's a little bit different than kind of your standard showcase setting where, you know, you pay 1,000 bucks and you go and run and, you know, maybe play a game, you know, so I'm a big fan of those and players should certainly take take advantage of the opportunity if they get invited to one of those events because one, it probably means you're pretty good and two, if you do play in those type of events, they tend to get covered really well, you know, from a coaching perspective. But also they have, there's a social media presence there that helps. So you got any, any thoughts on kind of the perfect game PBR stuff? [00:10:27] Speaker A: Of course, the, I mean the, the private showcases are, they're great in, in a lot of regards and you know, they're. I think the best way to kind of attack those is to ask yourself, like, what are you going to get out of it? Right. So there's, you know, a lot of these companies will run showcases year round. So under the current rules, like, you know, you're, there's going to be a dead period from the mid October all the way through March 1, I think, or February 28 every year. So if you're going to go to a PBR or Perfect Game or you know, enter the company that's running a showcase, there's not going to be a Division 1 school. There's in on November 25th. Not going to be there. Can't against the rules, you know, and depending on where it is, like you're not likely to get, you're like, you're really only going to get a regional kind of draw for who's in that area. You know, when I was coaching Division three, like I wasn't getting on a plane in December and going down to recruit in Florida, like it just wasn't getting, it wasn't in the cards for me not doing in January because we're spinning up our season, you know, so knowing what is actually going on From a recruiting landscape on. On the college side is vital to know, you know, the. The lowest put in there. You know, so and so has been here before these colleges have recruited our events. Like that means they've been at any of the many hundreds of events they run every year. It might not be that specific one. So knowing kind of what you're going to get out of it is huge for you. You know, they can't necessarily guarantee that college coaches are going to be there. It is a good way to get data and metrics and things like that on, you know, for yourself in the recruiting process. You know, a lot of times they'll update your profile on perfect Game or pbr, things like that, where coaches are, you know, they're going to Google your name and put baseball on the back end of it and that stuff pops up, they'll kind of be able to see the progression. So it's not the, you know, it's not always the worst thing in the world. The other is like, you know, there's not really a whole lot of coaching going into those showcases at all. You know, college coaches can't work them. They're not going to be on the field doing anything with you, you know, are some of the people that are working there, you know, do they try to do a little bit? Yeah, I think they do, but, you know, it kind of depends on. On who they are and what they're doing, you know, so it's a little bit different. You know, there is a little bit of a, you know, kind of pressure element to it, which I've always kind of liked. You know, you have all the. All the parents sitting in the stands, all the coaches are sitting in the stands. So, you know, you kind of can get a feel for, you know, a little bit of a bigger moment. Like, what can you do when the lights are on, you know, because when you get into college, that's. That's what it is, man. Like you. You're going to get into games and you're going to compete and, you know, it matters, you know, so if we want to kind of see how you handle that in that setting, you know, sometimes that. That moment could be a little bit too big for you and, you know, that's things that we pay attention to. So, you know, does it mean that you're not going to get recru. It doesn't, but, you know, you kind of want to see how guys are going to do when the. When the lights are on and there's a lot of people in the stands. And there's college coaches watching, you know, because there's an added element there, you know. So really, you know, for me it's always kind of been like, hey, what are you going to get out of this showcase? If you were going to, you know, get in front of some coaches, get your name out there, improve your metrics and update your profile, then yeah, man, like, you know, find a way, you know, to go to one or two, you know, you don't have to do 15 of them, you know, but if you get to one or two of them maybe at the start of the summer and the end of the summer and you know, you work through the schedule that is best for you to, to be able to showcase at those, then, you know, you want to put the best version, your best foot forward and be the best version of yourself in those two. You know, if you're not ready, don't go. You know, I think I've, I don't know how many times I've talked about this, but you know, there's been some showcases that I, you know, kind of stopped going to there a little bit more of a showcase camp, which we'll get into in a little bit. But you know, I kind of stopped going to in January because you had kids in upstate New York throwing as hard as they can in January and they're not throwing a meaningful game for, you know, 12 weeks. You know, I, I just didn't really believe in that type of stuff. So, you know, it's a it depending on, you know, the part of the country you're from and what you're into, then you know what your timeline and what your ramp up is and how good you are. You know, if it fits your schedule, it's not a bad option to get seen and have college coaches and get the metrics. You're looking forward to your profile. [00:15:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you hit on a couple of things that are really important. One of them is the timing piece. Right. And I think the timing is kind of a two headed monster. One is the timing of when is the camp. Right. To your point, if you're going to a showcase event in January, in all likelihood there's not going to be many coaches there. It's just how the rules work. Right. You might have some Division, Division 2 and Division 3 schools have a little bit more flexibility in terms of their ability to get out there in that time of year. But you know, if you're looking to get in front of Division 1 coaches and you go to a camp in January, that is A private camp. It's not an on campus camp. Like there's not going to be Division 1 coaches there. They can't, you know, during that quiet period. So there's, there's the timing of it there. I think there's the timing of it from a ramp up standpoint, specifically with pitchers is you have to be more concerned with getting yourself ready for your high school season and getting ready for your summer ball season and be more concerned with health than you do needing to get your numbers into pbr. Because like to your point, you see guys who are from the northeast going out and throwing a max effort 30 pitch bullpen in the middle of January, what's the point, right? You're not throwing a meaningful inning until April. You know, you're probably better off one, waiting until you're a little bit farther on in your progression to do so because you'll probably show a little bit better. But two, you're, you know, in all likelihood you're probably putting your, putting yourself at unnecessary injury risk. And you know, one of the, what's that old saying? The best ability is the availability. And you know, you got to be, if you want to get in front of coaches, you need to be healthy. And if, you know, you want to make sure that you're stacking the deck in your favor as much as you can in terms of when you're showcasing, when you're preparing like the off season is about getting better, it's not about trying to showcase yourself, you know, so for those younger guys specifically, if you're, you know, if you're 27 or 26, I think there's diminishing value in going to any of those events that early because one, nobody's calling you. And two, 98% of 27s and 26s, they just need to focus on getting better. And you don't need to spend that money or you don't need to go and put yourself in a situation where you all likelihood not putting yourself in the best situation for success. And the other thing is timing in terms of where you're at in your development process. You want to go and show a tool or a skill set that is going to be recruitable. And if you're not quite there yet, that's okay. It's important to be able to look in the mirror and go, hey, I run a 766-0 right now. I need to get faster in order to be a little bit more recruitable. Or you know, I throw 77 and I'm a, you know, a 20, 25. Like, I need to worry about getting better. I need to add some velocity, I need to add some arm speed, I need to get bigger, I need to get faster, I need to get stronger. So instead of, you know, spending your time going to one of those showcase events, spend your time in the gym, you know, spend your time with your, you know, your coaches that are going to help you get better and understanding that you, you know, you only get a, you only get one chance at a first impression. And if you're going to go to one of these events, you want to make sure that you're in a position where you're, you're going to put up some numbers and you're going to put up some metrics that are, that may turn a coach's head. Because at the end of the day, those events, at that time of year, they're metric events, right? They're not recruiting events. It's, it's really about updating your profile. So if you're not going to put up numbers that are, you know, that make you recruitable, don't worry about it. Just focus on getting better. There's nothing wrong with that. I think oftentimes in today's day and age, and I'm hoping that the new contact rule curbs this a little bit. But guys are focused on, in my opinion, the wrong stuff, right? You're focused on like, what can I post on Instagram, what can I post on Twitter, what's my perfect game ranking? You know, what was my max velo in a 30 pitch bullpen with nobody trying to hit? You know, at the end of the day, the coaches don't really care too much about that stuff. They're going to come and see you play. They're going to be able to pass their own judgment on whether you're fit or not. So don't get lost and don't get distracted by all of that and really be honest with where you're at and make a good decision in terms of how you're spending that. But, you know, I think like everything, there's a little bit of nuance to it and understanding the timing of it is probably one of the big driving factors for the value you're going to get out of one of those events. [00:19:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's the biggest part of this entire recruiting process, regardless of whether it's going to be camps, kind of the private showcases or even the private camps that we'll get into here in a minute. But, you know, it's kind of figuring out where you are in your process to be able to, to put your best foot forward, you know, and sometimes it's, it's going to be a little bit later, sometimes it is early, you know, but for, for the vast majority of people, it's going to be, you know, more than likely during and after your junior year in high school, you know, because people just aren't. They're not mature enough body wise, they're not mature enough physically, mentally, emotionally to, to really kind of go through that process and do those things. So, you know, it's, there's a lot more that goes into it than just the, you know, the straight up skill set standpoint. So you know, it's, you're right, it's nuanced and that's why we're here and that's why we're doing this. You know, the third one that we'll kind of get into here are the private camps and showcases a little bit more of the, you know, the head first of the world, the show balls, things like that where you're going to have a lot of college coaches who are going to be at the event, working it so they're going to be on the field, they're going to be, you know, hitting fungos in the dugout, coaching, you know, sitting on the field the entire day. So there's, there's a little bit more that goes into it with them. You know, these generally tend to be the more expensive ones for the exact reason why I just told you, like they're paying the college coaches to be there to work the event. So they got to make sure that, you know, they're going to be able to take care of them for, for being there for, you know, the entirety of the, the showcase and the, and the camp series. So you know, it's a, it is, you know, similar to, you know, the, the on campus stuff and that you're, you're going to be able to kind of, you know, get a feel for the coach or the coaching staff depending on how many people are there, whether or not you feel like you'd fit in, you know, but you're going to get some face time and kind of be able to say like, yeah, this seems like a coach I'd like to play for. You know what? Maybe I don't. The, the biggest thing I think when it comes to the head first and the show balls and things is knowing what you are going to get out of it as well. You know, some of these camps will, will do a really good job of, of getting you all the information that you, you need and the metrics that you went through from Exavilo to, you know, how hard you threw the ball to how fast you ran, things like that. Other ones are a little bit more spotty with how you can obtain that information. So, you know, it's kind of just doing your due diligence and your research on the front end to kind of be like, okay, which one, you know, kind of fits what it is that I'm looking to do. You know, obviously with Headfirst, it's called Head first. So it's a little bit more of an academic thing. And as a show ball, you know, they have, you know, a lot of the Ivy League schools are there, a lot of the NESCAC schools, there's some, some other high end academic schools. So, you know, if you don't profile as a student who is, you know, looking to go into the Ivy League or the Patriot League or the Nescac, like it might not be the best camp for you to go to on either end, you know, so you want to make sure that you're kind of looking at what coaches are going to be there, what kind of staffs are going to be there, what are those schools look like? Do I profile into that school? Because if you don't, you know, it's kind of similar to, hey, like, you want to go play at Georgia Tech, but you can't, like you're just kind of throwing money away at that point in time. Because if it's all academic schools and you know, you got a 2, 8 chances of you being able to get into that school are pretty slow, are pretty slim. So, you know, you want to make sure that you do your research on the front end to know that you're going to be in front of coaches of schools that you can actually, you know, you're interested in and can probably get into academically. And then the other is, you know, what are you going to get out of it? You know, if you're going to spend this much money, are you going to be able to get, you know, your Rapsodo data and your 60 time and your, you know, your exit vo, what, what you were on the bump, you know, things like that. If, if you can get that stuff, you know, very easily and it's, it's super accessible to you. You know, there's something to be said about that. You know, if, if there's, you know, if it's not accessible or it's a little bit, you know, Harder to, to obtain that information then, you know that you got to figure that out and make the decision that's best for you and your family. But, you know, I, I've, I've worked them, I've worked them both, you know, so I've been there. We've recruited guys out of both of them. We've gotten guys out of both of them. So, you know, there's, there's a lot of value there. It can kind of, you can really get a really close look at guys at those camps. So there's, there's value in there for coaches too. You know, don't be, don't think that we're not, you know, recruiting those camps. But you want to know as a player and as a family, when you're spending that much money, like, what are you going to get out of it? And I can promise you coaches are recruiting, you know, but you also want to know what, what's in it for you too. [00:24:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I think when you're doing research on those type of camps, right, where if you're academic, like, you know, there's a couple niche camps that do a really good job of that and you mentioned them both and you know, I think they both have value for different reasons. You know, you get that interaction with coaches. But regardless of, of how you're evaluating these, you know, showcase camps need to make sure that the schools that are going to be there are ones that you're interested in. And if you go on these websites, you generally get a pretty good idea of who's going to be there. And then the other thing I think that's really important is the format. Right. Make sure you understand what the format is going to be. Some of these showcases might only be a workout which, you know, if you can go really wrong or, you know, you've got some juice and you can take some really good bp, you might get on somebody's radar. But for my money, if I'm going to pay, you know, the kind of money that they're asking for there, I want to make sure that I get a chance to play some games, you know, and I know headfirst and showable offer that, you know, for the kind of the quote unquote non academic world, you know, academic schools do work. These ones, I think, I think best in the US does one of the, one of the better jobs in the country in terms of how they organize their camps. You know, it's a really tightly run workout. The coaches are really engaged. And then there's the game setting where they actually go and play games. They got a nice social media presence. Like you want to look for a product that's going to make sure that gives you a chance to be exposed to these coaches. And you want to be in a situation where the coaches are engaged and they're actively there recruiting, not just collecting a paycheck. And you know, from my experience, you know, a lot of times it's coach to coach. You know, certain guys take it more serious than others. But I think some of these organizations do a better job of making sure that these coaches are engaged and they're out there, you know, actively evaluating guys, interacting with players. So understand that format. Once again, from a pitcher's perspective, I think that's really important, right? Know what you're walking into because you need to prepare for it appropriately. Like if you're going to go and throw two or three innings, you're going to prepare differently than if you're throwing a 15 pitch bullpen, you know, so understand that format. Make sure you're setting yourself up for success. If you're going to go to these type of workouts, like you need to put some work in, in a couple of those measurable departments so that you can show off. Like if you're going to go run a 60, right, some guys can just run and that's great, but for a lot of guys, they need to work at it a little bit. So if you're going to be tested in the 60, you probably should run some 60s beforehand, right? You should probably spend some time working on your speed, you know, working on those first 10 yards, first 30 yards, you know, put in some time and effort to be able to put up a good number or at least a number that's as good as you can make it be. You know, you don't want to just walk into these one workouts and you know, you've run the 60 a couple times, but you only ever done it at a showcase. Well, you can get better at that. It's like a lot of things that if you practice it, if you do some fine tuning, you know, you can make your start better, you can make your first 10 yards better, you know, you can finish a little bit stronger, you know, so put in the work necessary to, to be successful at these showcases and I think once again it comes back to being informed and understanding. When are you ready to go showcase yourself? Are you going to a showcase that is got a list of schools that are attainable that are of interest to you? That's probably for me, that's probably the biggest thing is, you know, don't go to a showcase with a bunch of schools you can't play at, or don't go to a showcase with a bunch of schools just to say you went to a showcase because you're not going to get anything out of it. You know, make sure that there's guys there that you have interest in and, you know, take advantage of that opportunity. Maybe go introduce yourself to a coach. You know, give them a good handshake, tell them who you are. You know, that's an opportunity for you to make an impression, not just with what you do from a physical perspective, but at these type of camps, you get a chance to interact with coaches and be cognizant of the fact that they're listening to you when you're in the dugout, right? They're going to hear you if you bitch about the umpire, or they're going to hear you if you're standing on this top step rooting for a guy that you've never even played with. Like, coaches notice that stuff. And I think that probably doesn't get talked about enough, that when you're in these. These showcase settings where the coaches are actively working, the evaluation isn't just how hard you throw and how run, how fast you run. They're. They are actively looking. If they. If they deem you to be a talented enough player for their program, I can guarantee you they are honing in on how you're interacting with other players. You know, what are you talking about in the dugout? How are you going to interact with your parents after the camp? You know, we've talked about this a few times, and I'm sure we'll talk about it in the future. But, you know, how a kid acts with mom and dad is really important. You know, what level of respect is there? You know, same thing. Talking to coaches and talking to players and teammates. That's stuff that coaches hone in on. Because we're looking for talented players, but we're also looking for guys that we want to coach. We're looking for good people who are going to be good teammates. Because at the end of the day, when we get to college, it's about winning, and you need a group of individuals all pulling in the right direction. And the last thing is, you want is somebody who wants to sit at the end of the dugout and point fingers and talk about dumb stuff that doesn't have anything to do with what's going on. So, you know, for players, I think that's an Important thing to understand is that you are, you are being watched a lot closer than you think when you're not hitting or you're not pitching and be cognizant of that fact and make sure that you're acting appropriately to make sure you at least don't get crossed off somebody's list. Don't want to do anything egregious. Where a coach goes, man, I don't want to coach that kid. Don't, don't be that guy, if you will. [00:30:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you, the, the, the, the head first and those types of camps are, you know, you, you get a really up close and personal look at a lot of the kids, you know, so you get a, you have a pretty good feel for whether or not you think that kid's going to fit into your program. You know, they said both, you know, a lot of them set aside, you know, specific amount of time to meet with coaches and be able to get in front of them and ask questions and stuff. So, you know, it's, I, I was a little weird. I actually enjoyed it a little bit. You know, I, I didn't mind standing out there and, you know, meeting a bunch of people and answering questions. So, you know, it's, you got to kind of get a feel and you get to see where, you know, where kids are in their maturation and, and how they're developing not only as a player but as a person. And you know, it takes a lot for 15, 16 year old kid to walk up to, you know, a coach he doesn't know and, and ask some questions and really be engaging and thoughtful in his response. So, you know, it tells you a lot, you know, about the kid when you're, when you're having those conversations. So I always enjoyed it, you know, from that standpoint. So, you know, you're right. There's a lot more eyes on you than you, you know, kind of ever really think there are. So, you know, going about your business the right way, regardless of whether or not it's at, you know, the showcase, the, on campus, the, the regular showcase, the, the private camps or even just your own games, you know, there's a lot of eyes on you. So, you know, being able to go about your business the right way and, and make sure you're, you're showing people that you're the guy that, you know, they want to recruit is, is critical, you know, at every point in this process. So, you know, it'll be good. [00:32:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I think another thing kids can do going into specifically these kind of Showcase camps that we're talking about right now is reach out to coaches ahead of camp, right? Like, they may not, they may not even respond to your email, right? And that's, that's probably worth its own rant. I don't understand why coaches aren't more responsive. I know coaches get a lot of emails, but, you know, I know some coaches who won't let an email go unresponded to. And I know some guys that just for some reason can't find the time to do it. And we all know that they have time to do it. But email a coach? Cause I can promise you that even if they haven't responded, they likely saw it. And if you do something at camp and they look down, they're like, oh, Jimmy Smith. Oh, that kid emailed me the other day. Let me, let me take a look at this kid a little bit longer. Like he's got some interest in our program and I think he can do some stuff like just, just a name going over somebody' email. It's a small thing you can do to maybe give yourself a little bit of a leg up or at least be a name that could be recognizable at a showcase where a coach can say, looking at their list before you guys go to work out, and he starts going through names and you know, he sees a name that he's had a kid reach out to him before, I can almost guarantee you that guy's going to pay at least a little bit extra attention because you've shown some interest. And yeah, while coaches are always looking for, at the end of the day, players that can help them win games, it's a major bonus if it's a kid who really wants to be there, you know, so there's nothing wrong with reaching out to those coaches and letting them know you're going to be there, getting them your summer schedule, getting them your contact information, maybe getting them some video so that they got an idea what you can do heading into the showcase. But you know, little things like that, you know, they may not be the reason you get recruited, but it might be a small step in the right direction where that email could trigger a coach's response just because you took the time to send them a thoughtful email ahead of the showcase. So, you know, doing that kind of stuff matters. And you know, I think, you know, players need to do it. You know, mom and dad don't send that email. Kids need to send it. But, you know, that stuff can go a long way and it's certainly not going to hurt you Know, basically, I guess that's really what it comes down to is a little extra time to send that email is not going to, not going to do anything to hurt you in the recruiting process. It can only help. [00:34:52] Speaker A: Yeah. The other is, you know, when you do send your email, just give a 24, 72 hours lead time. You know, I was one of the people who always responded to emails. So I actually, you know, people would come up to me and headfirst be like, I emailed you. You didn't answer. And I, you know, they'd be standing in front of me and I responded to their email at 6 that morning like, no, you emailed me at 10 o' clock last night and I responded this morning like, you know, just be a little, you know, hey, give me an email, you know, a day or two before the event. Not at, you know, not five hours before the event starts. Yeah, no, I, I agree. You know, being able to kind of reach out and, and let people know where you're going to be and what you're doing, you know, it's, it, it will jog your memory because you're right, college coaches do get a lot of emails. You know, so if you send an email like, hey, I'm going to be at, you know, X showcase and I'm, and I know I'm going there when I, you know, get my list, you know, seeing your name, if I don't remember it right away is going to jog my, that kid emailed me. I'll make sure I just lock in and kind of see what he looks like. You know, it's, it's never going to hurt anything. So, you know, taking the time to just introduce yourself via email to say hi or just, hey, I see that you're going to be there and I'm going to be there too. I look forward to, you know, meeting, you know, it's fine because I, I, like you said, it stands out and I'll probably remember what your, what your name is and watch you for a, a tick longer than maybe I otherwise would have. [00:36:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the, the other you kind of hit on the timing piece. But like the post camp, whether it's an on campus camp or one of these showcase camps, don't email the coach that night looking for feedback. Coaches are traveling, they're trying to spend time with their families. They may be catching a flight home, they may be driving home. Give it 48, 72 hours and let them, you know, let them get settled in and then send them that email. Hey coach, it Was really good meeting you at camp the other day, you know, really interested in your program. Do you have any feedback for me? Here's my summer schedule, you know, so on and so forth. But yeah, don't be the guy who sends it. Who sends it. You know, an hour and a half after camp when you're riding home with mom and dad in the car and you pop off a, you know, a really impersonal email asking for feedback. Just give these guys a little bit of time. They're. They work really hard and they spend a lot of time on the road in the summer. And, you know, just be. Just be respectful of that. And if you are, most likely they're going to get back to you and at least give you some feedback that you might be able to use to guide your, you know, guide the recruiting process and help you move forward. [00:37:40] Speaker A: If you're going to be recruited by that school, like, they're not going to be bashful about it. They're going to reach out to you and let you know, you know, but you're right. Like there's there. There's been countless times I've left camps and it's like, hey, you know, what do you think? It's like I just watched 1500 Kids over the last six days. My head is spinning right now. I don't. Give me 24 to 40 hours to digest this information, go over my notes and give you a thoughtful response to what I saw and what I think, you know, off the cuff. I'm not going to have a good enough answer. And quite frankly, it's probably going to be rude and impersonal and it's not going to be, you know, good for either of us. So, you know, like you said, give it a couple hours or, you know, give it a day or two. You know, let me digest the information and be able to kind of go over what it is to get you a. The honest feedback you're looking for and, and where I think you would fit in, whether it's with us or. Or not, you know, so it's that timing. That timing post camp is. Is just as important as the timing pre camp. [00:38:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, to kind of. To sum up the camp and showcase thing, I think there's a couple big takeaways that apply to all of this. Right. Is to the timing of it is really important. Right. And we talked about the PBR perfect game stuff that's in, you know, the, the quiet period. If you're going to go do that, understand what you're Getting out of it. Make sure that you're not putting yourself in a situation where you're increasing the likelihood that you'll get injured because you're not ready to go and showcase that. And then the other timing piece is are you in a position where you are a recruitable player right now and that's going to be relative to your class. But having someone in your corner who can guide you, who can give you honest feedback on where you fit is a really important piece of the puzzle. And I think that trickles down into the on campus camps as well as the showcase. The showcase camps that we were just talking about is, you know, if you're going to go to these on campus camps, you need to be informed. You need to make sure that you're going places that make sense. They make sense from an academic perspective, they make sense from a playing perspective, they make sense from a social and a financial perspective. Like those pieces of the puzzle need to be considered before you just haul off and you know, take a four hour flight someplace just to, you know, ultimately end up getting a T shirt. So you know, taking the time to honestly assess where you're at and making sure that you're, you know, effectively and efficiently going about, you know, your, your exposure opportunities, I think is, is really where the whole camp came. Camp and showcase conversation needs, needs to start. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Yeah, that you know, the, the timing piece is going to be the big one from a timeline standpoint for you. You know, what are the rules around the recruiting end of it for, for division one, Division two, Division three? Like you know, can they be there? Can they not things like that, you know, and then what are you going to get out of it? You know, if it's, you know, like you said, if you're just gonna go get a T shirt like go to fanatics.com and buy one, you know, you'll save a lot of money. You know, but the, the reality is you want to, you want to know where you kind of fit in and, and have somebody telling you the, giving you the honest feedback who have, you know, hey, you don't, you can't play in the acc. It's going to stink to here. But you know, there's a lot of people who can't play in the ACC out of high school who are end up being really good baseball players. It's okay. Find the place where that, where you fit in and kind of adjust your timeline around, you know, those types of camps and showcases, things like that to get seen. [00:41:37] Speaker B: Absolutely. And you know, with that I Think that's probably a good segue into, to closing this one out. But, you know, for those of you who've been listening to the podcast, we haven't really expanded on this very much, but, you know, that's what, what Keith and I do is we run EMD baseball. And you know, with our 25 years of experience together at three different levels of NCAA baseball, you know, we've. We've got a lot of experience guiding families. We've done this as coaches and, you know, we have a lot to offer in terms, information that we're talking about. And we have the ability to layer this over the personal level to really guide the individual so they can get that feedback so that they can go to the showcases that they need to be at or the ones that are going to be of value to them. And, you know, we take a lot of pride in helping families find the right fit. And ultimately for us, that's. That's really what it's about. [00:42:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that's why we do this podcast. That's why we do what we do. You know, being able to kind of help families navigate this process is, is really the, the rewarding end of, of what we're doing now. So, you know, like us on YouTube or subscribe on YouTube, like us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, follow us on wherever you get your podcast, Apple, Spotify, wherever. Lock in and listen to the, the great interviews we have, the great interviews we have coming forward and all the podcasts we'll be releasing here over the next. Every week, for the next however many. [00:43:12] Speaker B: Weeks, for the foreseeable future, if you will. But thanks for coming this week. Hope you got something out of the breakdown of the camps and showcases. Like Keith said. Check us out on social media if you guys got any questions. Feel free to reach out that way. Otherwise, we hope to have you back next week. Got some good episodes coming up, a couple interviews on the books, and looking forward to continuing to spread some knowledge and hopefully educate some players and parents as they go through the recruiting process. Thanks, everybody. Sam.