Episode Transcript
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[00:01:10] Speaker B: welcome to this week's edition of the Dugout Dish podcast. I'm Andy Kirakidis, joined by my Wonderful Co host, Mr. Keith Glasser. How are we doing, sir?
[00:01:19] Speaker C: Great.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: How are you?
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Good.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: We got a wonderful guest on. All you listeners will recognize the name. He's been a busy man recently, like usual, the director of Elite National.
He actually gets on the field and does some really high quality coaching with these gentlemen that he works with as well. Always good to have him on the pod. Mr. Jonathan Grasse. How we doing?
[00:01:41] Speaker C: I'm great. I appreciate you guys having me on. Yeah, that, that was a good intro. That might be my best intro. I'm like the longest tenured guest on here if it's the best intro. Should have started this five years ago. We should have got that intro going.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Yeah, no, we got you. We got you fresh off.
Probably definitely the east coast most prominent underclassman event. I would say the west coast, you got the Fall Classic, but East coast, best undercut, most, most widely recruited, most highly attended underclassmen event down in, in Fort Myers. You're fresh off that. You had Elite national rolling down there. Good squad.
I think you're still down in Florida. Correct me if I'm wrong, We're fresh off a trip out west. We've been in and around and talking to coaches left and right, but like, you were at the heart of it. You were. You were in the middle of the proverbial recruiting storm, boots on the ground, if you will.
And seems like a really good time to just kind of talk about what are we hearing from coaches. I think things are a little bit different than they've been in recent years because of a lot of the changes that have happened. And we've all talked about this on the pod, but I think, I think you've got some, some good talking points here. So we're gonna, we're gonna bat that around a little bit and just kind of talk about some of the things we're hearing from coaches specifically regarding the 28s and the 29. So give us, give us a little insight here.
[00:03:18] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I, I, it was awesome, honestly. I mean, did a little bit, they dealt with a little bit of weather, but I mean, for, you know, being down here at this time of the year, it was a plus and, you know, perfect. You did a really good job with it and everything. But it's, it's kind of unanimous. I mean, if you're a 20, 28 grad, you are going to be the first of kind of this new age recruiting, it appears.
How long that will be the case, I am not sure, but I think, you know, there's a couple of takes that I had, you know, just talking to a lot of different coaches, a lot of different levels, like, you know, hearing from, you know, a bunch of different guys from different conferences and stuff like that. Like, this is going to be a slow process. Like just, just buckle up and, you know, and be ready for it.
That that was, that was clearly evident was that that was the ultimate sediment. Of course, the across the board, no matter who you talk to, is like, yo, it's got to be 100%, yes. Before we even consider doing anything. And I think the other part of it too is I think in 27, and I think this is going to be a good point here. I think in 27, a lot of guys like to talk about that and like to use that as like a baseline and like kind of like a little bit click, you know, bait, ish, whatever you want to call it, right? Like it was a little cliche like, oh, we're going to go slow, we're going to go slow.
There, there. I had, I'd actually had three guys say to me that, yeah, we're not going to make the same mistakes we did in 27, that we're in 28 this year because we're going to go a little bit slower. And I think that's a really, really, really good thing for guys to hear right now because I think there's going to be a lot of guys coming out of this that are going to be very, very, very confused about what just happened. And like coach I played in front of 70 schools, coach. I played in front of 40 schools. Like, I think, you know, people were telling them about me. Like, I think I did pretty good. I think, you know, hey, my Velo was good or whatever the case may be. And I think, I think it might be quiet for a lot of guys. And I think, you know, number one, you know, to kind of top that even more so is there is a lot, a lot of really, really good players uncommitted.
And I actually would make the argument that there may be more uncommitted better players than there are committed players, to be honest with you. Like, I actually think the pool of uncommitted players is better than what's available, what's out there in terms of commitments. Because, like, I was talking to a couple of our players the other day. They're like, yo, coach, like, this team's got all these committed guys and like, they're just like, okay.
And I'm like, yeah. I think, though, like, for the first time ever at this tournament, like, just because you have a big board of committed guys doesn't mean, like, you're that great. It means they did something in a short window, the first or second week of August to get committed. Or maybe it was a little bit late in July. They saw them, school offered them, felt like they could make that decision. But like, there was guys making decisions on those previous decisions this weekend. And I think there's going to be some flip flopping and reopening going on as well coming out of this weekend because these guys are saying, I mean, they're saying that. They said it to me like, yo, we're not making the same mistake we did in 27. We're not just going to go into, into next summer not really needing anything and just being like, hey, I can just use a, you know, a pitcher, maybe a position player. That's not going to be the case. Like, it's not.
And that's at the highest level. Coming down, guys, that's the sec. That's the sec. Like multiple guys, you know, talking about the same stuff, like, just, just keep getting better because it's, this is going to be a long, long, long process.
And it's. Again, it's this. In my opinion, I think 27 was a little bit of the guinea pig, but I think in 28, we're getting, we're gonna, we're gonna really see that this thing is very different than it's been in a long time.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that I'll pose the other side of this. And I, I know the answer to this, but know people be like, well, I'm seeing all these guys committing.
Like, well, how, how can what you're telling me be, you know, the truth of it when I'm seeing that. I know I saw this one guy commit to Virginia and this other guy, you know, Arkansas committed four guys. Like, what would your response to that be?
[00:07:38] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean there are guys committed, don't get me wrong, there are, you know, again, it's a small sample size though, from what they're committing off of. Again, maybe they have a history, the kid goes to camp, he's local, something like that. So yeah, I mean, of course you can make that argument, right? Like, and, and of course the SEC and you know, and the top, you know, top tier of the ACC and you know, and the Big 12 are going to make decisions. They're gonna be able to go a little bit on some guys, but I just don't think it's going to be in terms of like the, the numbers this early are not going to be what we've seen in years past. Like, I don't think we're going to see that because at some point, guys, the math still has the math. Like, and I know for a long time the math hasn't had, they had, had really hadn't had the math, but the math now has the math. So like, okay, yeah, your buddy committed or, you know, kid, you know, in the town over from you committed. Like, you know, just stay the course. Like, I'm telling you, just stay the course. Like the amount of guys that, you know, we're here and yo, he's really good, we really like him. We'll be back in June.
That's, that's the reality right now. And like Atlanta again, you know, come next summer and you know, in the early part of June and mid part of June, you know, obviously depending on what guys are doing with the portal and stuff like that, you know, is, is going to be, you know, part of this. But like, do not think that you're not a good player or you're not going to be able to commit to a really good school that really, really, really wants you. Just because you're not committed by Halloween or Thanksgiving this year.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I think no, this is the same message that I've been getting. Right. We got it out west and sometimes just the timelines are different on different coasts. Like east coast tends to be a little bit more aggressive, but they're having the same, same conversations out there that we need to see a guy a ton it. If we're going to go on a guy this early, it needs to be a situation where that kid is almost good enough to help to play or at least compete with us today. Like, we can't guess anymore. Right? You got back to like, I don't want to make the same mistake that we made last year. And what happens is like for, for, you know, for the folks listening is that sometimes you, you can get a little bit overzealous with your projection of a kid and that can bite you in the ass. In the long run, you either end up having to keep him or you end up having to dump him because he can't. He's not good enough.
Where the best way that I've put it, that I've had it put to me from, from guys at the highest level of Division 1 talking about this is I gotta feel like that kid is close to being able to pitch for us or play for us today.
And if he's that good, then I'm not really projecting anymore. I'm just looking for that kid to continue his development track. But I'm not looking for like a big velocity jump or like a big command jump.
It's. And I've seen these guys being around Virginia. I've seen Virginia and Virginia Tech commit some guys in the 2028 class. I've watched those guys play. I've seen ECU's got the, the number one ranked player in Virginia going them. I've seen those guys play. It is so obvious that they are the best players in the class that there's no question about it. So I get what you're talking about, but I think that's what gets missed as we start playing this comp game. Well, he committed. He committed, all right.
Kid who committed to play shortstop at Virginia, he's got three well above average tools and he's not far off from being able to play at that level today.
I get it. But Virginia is not moving on anybody that they're wishy washy on just because they feel like they need to get a commitment on the board. And that's what used to happen.
[00:11:19] Speaker C: And I just, they don't feel that way, honestly, because like I, I brought that up to a couple times and I'm glad you brought that up because that's, I think that's a spot on point. Like the, the FOMO game used to work in Basel. You guys know this better than anybody, right? Like the FOMO game used to work like. Well, yo, if I don't take him, but South Carolina is going to take them. Like, then we're, they don't care anymore. Like, they don't. I, I've heard a guy say, they're like, yo, if you want, if they want, if XYZ wants to go on him, good for them.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. And it's the other thing that I think is really interesting about the way that recruiting is unfolded is specifically in, like, the last two or three years, is that there's no such thing as regional recruiting anymore.
State schools are always going to do their work in state. They're going to try to. Right. For various reasons, you can see guys more. A lot of times there's some pride associated with playing in specific places, but you can go anywhere in the country and get a guy now. And the example I have coming out of this cycle so far is that Texas has the best arm out of New Jersey and the best army out of New York.
Fifteen years ago, there's a 1% chance that you see a kid from New York on a, Texas, on a, on a roster in the state of Texas, period.
So it's opened it up completely now, which I think gives these guys even less reason to rush because it's like, we can go to whatever corner of the country we want. If we really want a guy, we can get him to come to us.
And I think that's changed the game a little bit too. Especially, you know, with some of these big tournaments. You're getting teams from all over the country to fly in and they're playing and you can, like, you know, I know you had some coaches that, to see some guys that were on your three or four games, every single game they're at. If you can go watch a guy four times and you won't, and you don't absolutely love him, when you walk away, there's no reason to, to do anything with him yet. You can track him, get to know them, do your homework. But I think that's the state of affairs right now is that if you don't walk away feeling like, I have to have that kid in my program, these schools aren't Russian. They're not rushing to do it.
Especially at the, the tippy top.
The tippy top of it, like, they're just, they don't have to.
[00:13:33] Speaker C: Yeah, but I, yo, I don't even know if I agree with that. I, I think it's all the way across the board, honestly. Like, I, I don't even, like, even the mid tier, like, I, I, I, I don't I don't see any difference right now, to be honest with you. Like, you know, not to be totally to disag, I just, I don't see any different, honestly.
Like, I mean, I talked to a non Scout, Division 1 and they were like, you know, like, I like him a lot but like, I just think, I think we can probably wait till June and get a better, better, better feel on that kid.
I'm like, dude, like what? Like really, it's just where we're at.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a lot, there's a, a lot of things have changed.
You brought up something.
I was talking with you earlier today and I, I think that this is a really interesting talk, especially around the velocity stuff, that there's going to be a lot of kids who were down in, in Fort Myers this weekend who are 88 to 90, 91, who may not walk away with a ton of offers.
And I wanna, I wanna unpack that a little bit because I think it's particularly relevant.
[00:14:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I think I, I think my, my exact quote to you is there's a lot of guys that are, you know, 87.89 and bumped a 90 that through two innings down here, that five years ago, four years ago would be 10 offers, eight, 10 offers easily committed by like Thanksgiving, you know, maybe somebody wanted to see him one more time. Maybe.
But for the most part now, there will be more kids this year that through two innings, 87, 89, 88 to 90, that will not have offers than we've ever seen.
And does that mean they're not good? No, that still means you're in a very, very, very small percentage of, you know, pitchers at your age. Number one, I think it could be a couple of things, to be honest with you. I think, number one, I think guys need more of a sample size than two innings. And again in years past, I don't think that was the case. So I think part of that is whether you were ready to throw or the team you played for didn't necessarily get a feel for what would need to be done to help you
[00:15:58] Speaker A: or,
[00:15:58] Speaker C: you know, maybe, you know, your arm wasn't quite built up to that. Whatever, whatever, it doesn't really matter, to be honest. But you're not going to have all of those guys off the board that you have in years past that were again, 87, 89, 88 to 90, 56% strikes, breaking ball, maybe they threw it once for, you know, landed a first strike, maybe twice.
Like guys don't want to make a decision on it's Too small of a sample size.
So as crazy as it sounds, I think, you know, just because you did that, you know, and again, three years ago, you guys have been down here three years ago, like, those guys would be off the board. I mean, they would be guys already come off the board today. Today's Monday, the championship. You know, they were playing the semifinals and championship today. Like, those guys would be off the board by Friday, like, easily.
And I just don't think you're going to see that. Like, I don't. Just from talking to a lot of guys, I just don't think it's enough of a sample size for them to really go now. Does it get you to the top of their board to go see in the spring? Yeah, probably.
But again, like, you're not walking out of here committed, you know, I mean, there will be some. Don't get me wrong, there will be some. But, you know, I think there's a lot of reality coming for guys that, you know, we're maybe told some things that, you know, just come and do this small thing and you're going to be fine.
And, you know, I hope you play for somebody that can, you know, give you the answers that you need, because again, that was not just me. That's not just my opinion. This is for coming from other coaches. And I got that, to be honest with you, a week ago, like, before. Before I even came down, really, a week and a half ago, like, that was kind of. Yo, he's only going to throw two innings.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: Like, I'm not.
[00:17:45] Speaker C: I don't need to worry about it. Like, I need. I'm going to need more of a sample than that to probably make a decision. And that's not everybody that has said that, but there has been a lot of guys that have kind of given us that. Like, hey, if it's two innings, like, we're probably going to need more.
So.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: What do you got there, Keith?
[00:18:11] Speaker A: Can you hear me now?
[00:18:12] Speaker B: Got you now. Yeah, we had a. We had a little mic.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: Wow. I don't know what was happening there.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: We're back.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: I unmuted myself.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: Ignore the pause.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: I was still muted while. While unmuting myself.
Don't you think it's good, though?
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:18:31] Speaker C: I. I said. I said to stand earlier. Like, this is the healthiest, Healthiest we've been at and since before I've been involved in this, to be honest with you.
These are adults not making decisions. Right?
[00:18:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that there's.
We've talked about this before, but it's how many times have. Have you been burned or programs have been burned on exactly what you're talking about? Like, you see a guy who's really good for two innings, you take him and then you know, he gets to campus and he's not ready and you're back in the portal. Or you know, it's I under. Under. What is going to happen with five years and you know, whether or not people are going to play for five is, you know, remains to be seen. But you got to nail it with, with 34 man rosters because with no red shirts and nothing else, like you have to nail your.
Everything about the kid. Not only his, you know, not only the baseball part, but the character piece. Is he going to fit into your program? And there's going to be like, there's going to be no's on kids that are super talented because they might not fit into that program and that's, that's normal like that, that happened before. But I think it, it's. There's going to be a lot more box checking going on on the coaches and to your guys point that the fomo, the FOMO aspect of recruiting is no longer. It's just like that, whatever, I'll. We'll find other guys, you know, like I, I know guys that the, you know, in the Big Ten this year that were like, I don't even know what to do during the summer because it was like I, like we're not really, we're not rushing on twenty eighths at all. Like, we're just trying to, we're trying to evaluate as many as we possibly can, see where we're at and like maybe start making decisions on one or two guys by Thanksgiving, but like worried literally in no hurry. And guys that you know who are on the road recruiting all the time, they're like, I don't know what to do with myself. Like, I'm just home. I, like this is weird to me and I think that, I think that's normal for a lot more guys this year than it's probably been in the past because of exactly what you're talking about. Like it's slowed down and they need more of a sample size on guys. And you know, let's be honest, if you're a dude in July, like, sure. But most of those guys, like, they're going to take July, August, September, October now to put themselves in the conversation and that still might not be enough for you to be able to go get multiple offers from places like you need to go get better in the off season, you know, develop yourself even more and be really good next May, June, July, to be where you want to be.
It's not a bad thing.
[00:21:03] Speaker C: Listen, I'm not, I don't want, I don't want to come across that. I think this is a bad thing. This is just the reality that kind of I'm here, I'm dead on. I think it's amazing. I think it's awesome.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: I don't, I don't, I don't think we were coming across as being negative, but I think in with the amount of talks I've done recently, like, everyone is like, it's just doom and gloom and like there's going to be no spots. And I'm like, no, that's not the case. Like, yeah, this, this is actually better and more healthy for the game. In four kids that are going through this process than it has ever been before because, you know, you used to be able to, you know, people were just making decisions on, you know, two, three, two, three inning outings and being like, I hope that's the guy that shows up in next year.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: Like now it's like, well, like I can throw, like, let me see him do it 2, 3, 4 times before I legitimately make a decision on, yeah, this is the right kid. And let me make sure that I have some conversation, like more in depth conversations with him over those two, three, four outings so I get to know the kid and what he wants to do as well to see if it's going to be a fit for all of us. Because at 34, like, we can't miss.
It just can't happen.
[00:22:14] Speaker C: I'm going to say this.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: You will miss, but like you, you need to mitigate your, your misses as much as possible.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:21] Speaker C: Here's what I say.
If all you think about is doom and gloom and all you're hearing is doom and gloom, contact these guys at AMD or contact me. Because it's not, it's not that bad.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: Oh, like, it's not.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: I'm being serious. It's not like, call me, I'll tell you, I'll give you the reality. Call me. But like, it's not, it's not that bad at all. It's really not. Like I sat down here. It's not, it's just, it's the reality though.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And I, I think it, in a lot of ways this serves as the feedback that players it.
If you're not getting calls and you're not getting offers, like, everybody thinks it's a Bad thing. It's a dumb. It's just that you need to get better.
And there's, it's just the reality with so for so many kids, I mean there's going to be.
There'll be 2100 division, high school, division one commits probably there's probably 150 total so far in the 2028 class that like that's, it's a, it's a small number. It just seems like a big number because it's the only thing that shows up on your freaking Twitter feed or your X feed or whatever.
But it's not a big number. And there's a lot of spots that are going to be open next spring and these guys never stop recruiting. That was one of the things that came out of the stuff out west talking to some guys out there is that with the Portal they're never really done because.
And not, not because they're going to recruit. The Portal always. And this is, was a little bit news, not news to me but it was the first time I'd heard it from multiple people like kind of in consecutive conversations.
But guys talking about being able to take high school kids the summer before they get to college because they don't want to do a lot of transfer stuff but you still have to fill your roster. So they're going and kids who were committed to junior colleges, they're going to kids who were thinking about doing a, you know, like a gap year but like how their cycle never really truly ends. And if you, if you get all bent out of shape because you're not getting phone calls and offers In October and ERA 2028, the road to commitment is a lot longer than.
And it. And to your point and to key's point, like I think it's a good thing and it's kind of ironic that the transfer portal being a piece of the puzzle for places was kind of the thing that started the slowdown and then the 34 man roster. And now these coaches are in a situation where they don't want to have to be the bad guy and tell a kid that you're not coming to school in a week, which is going to happen next weekend at Jupiter.
Everybody knows it. It's the unspoken, you know, elephant in the room that next week there's going to be a boatload of 27s down in Jupiter and there's going to be some kids to go down there and they're not going to perform and they're going to get told they don't have a spot anymore.
These coaches don't want to do that.
So if they take longer on the front end.
Right. It's probably one of the things that frustrates me the most about some of the back and forth on the Twitter stuff is that they paint the coaches. Like, these coaches are just a bunch of selfish jerks who don't care about the kids. It couldn't be further from the truth, but they have to make decisions that are best for their program.
So they get mad when they. When they tell a kid that he doesn't have a spot on the back end. And now people get all.
They get all hurt and bent out of shape because they're doing their due diligence and taking their time on the front end, which should mitigate the stuff that happens on the back end. And I can promise you that you'd rather have it be slow on the front.
They get hacked on the back end.
But it's.
[00:26:02] Speaker C: And it's the same, except further right. They get me. All they do is group the transfer portal. Not also not true, but like, again. Right. Like, same thing.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Most of the transfer portal stuff, honestly, it's reactionary for a lot of these guys that you. You have your class lined up, you're ready to go, and then you have five guys leave your program. Well, yeah, you got. You have to go into the portal. You have to get five guys. Is there. Are there teams who are strategically using it? Yes, and they should be.
But for more. More programs that people want to recognize, the portal is they use the portal as a reaction to their roster changes at the end of a college season and less as a preemptive way to restore their roster. If that makes. If I'm explaining that correctly.
Yeah, I think that you're.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: You made the right point and you did explain it correctly, but I'm glad you brought it up because it's.
I think a lot of people just think that, you know, just go to the transfer portal first to start recruiting everything.
When the reality is, like, you could have your class set. And then as you just said, all of a sudden, five, six guys decide in June or July that they're going to jump in the portal.
[00:27:12] Speaker C: You.
[00:27:13] Speaker A: You can't bring in a lot of high school guys at that point in time. Like, there might not be a lot left or there might not be any good enough for you from a high school standpoint. So you do have to go into the portal to, like, get to your 34 man roster to make sure that you have players and bodies, but that you have some semblance of a competitive roster. And I think the other side of it too is that you can't like you're, it's incredibly difficult to win at the collegiate level with a ton of freshmen. So if all of a sudden you lose five guys and you already have seven freshmen coming in and now you got to add another five, it's going to be hard with 12 freshmen to go out there and really compete. And at the end of the day, like, whether you want to admit it or not, especially in today's day and air, in today's day and age, it is a business, it's always been a business, but even more so now. And these guys have to win because if you don't win, you ain't going to get paid. Now you can make the argument that sometimes in football it might be better to just get whacked and get your buyout, but in baseball that's not necessarily going to always going to be the, the, the, the saving grace.
But no, I think that like it's, you get this overwhelming sense in talking to kids and parents in this process of like this. It's, they want it to be over.
And the hard reality is that like this is, this is long and it's going to be tough, it's going to be difficult. There's a reason that only 7 and a half to 8% of people are actually going to go do this, but you have to go through this process to get there. And it's already slowed down over the last two or three years, especially with the contact rules and then the portal and everything else. But this new, like, this is the, this is like the third iteration. I feel in the last three years that like, it's slowing down even more because of the, the rosters at the Division 1 level. And it might not seem like it for a lot of places, but there's that trickle down effect where it's going to affect, if it's affecting the top end, it's going to affect the bottom end.
So like, there's going to be a lot of guys that are fringe Division 1 guys that aren't going to hear anything or have a decision until June, July, August of next year, which then is going to slow down the Division 2 and 3 recruiting because hey, if I'm academic, but, you know, hey, I might be able to go play at, you know, Holy Cross or, you know, Bucknell and your fringe guy there. Well, hey, you know, they make a decision in July or August that, you know, they don't have a spot for you now you're going, you're probably looking more towards the, you know, the Nescax Liberty League Centennial Conference. Like, you know, so those schools know there's better players out there that are going to be available to me that I haven't had access to before.
I'm just going to wait it out and there's going to be programs. They're going to see guys just like anywhere else. We're like, hey, this is, this dude could legitimately come in here and potentially play for us right now. Right? Like he wants to go to Middlebury. Mom and dad went to Middlebury. I really like him. Yeah, we'll move on them. But those are going to be outlier cases. You know, like the, the more, the more popular. I don't want to say popular. That's not the right word. The more the word I'm looking for. YouTube, come on. The war.
Yes. Thank you. The more common bad is going to be like, it's just gonna be a longer, more drawn out process.
You know, I, I think that you're gonna have, I mean there's still, division three is still going to push guys. ED1 ED2 Right. Which is going to be November or December. But that's like, that's just what it's going to look like, right? Like, I think you're going to have a lot. It's going to be a longer process for everyone involved, not just people at the Division 1 level.
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[00:32:09] Speaker B: yeah, I mean if I'm, I've talked to some guys about this and if I was in their shoes and I was coaching Division 3 baseball, like there ain't, there ain't a lot of.
I'm gonna let as much Time play out as I can because the shoes got to drop for a lot of these kids now. And if everything slows down at Division 1, there's gonna be a boatload of really talented players available for the rest of rest of college baseball a little bit later than usual. And yeah, I mean, the, the kids are out there listening right now. And you can make up a lot of ground in the next six months.
Like if you're the guy who's not getting a ton of phone calls, but like, you're a really good player. Like, you're that right hander who's like 83 to 85, 86, and you can pitch a little bit and like, you can, you can command the baseball and like, you can spin the ball a little bit, but you're kind of missing the velo that is going to kind of get everybody, you know, a little saucy.
You got time to do that. And that was another takeaway, Jonathan, that I, from our conversation, the conversations that I've had with dozens of pigeon coats recently, is that, yeah, you need velocity to get people out. It's just the way of the world right now. There's all kinds of data suggested. You can argue with me all you want about pitchability. Like, I get it, I'm not some data, like some baseball data blind person. I get both sides of it.
So you can come at me if you want, but the numbers will tell you that if you throw harder, it is harder to get a hit.
But I think these coaches strength systems, they are a lot more confident that they can help a kid throw harder than they are, that they can help a kid throw more strikes, for sure.
Unless you have the V numbers that are kind of like wildly overwhelming.
If you're in that 87 to 89 range right now, which is a nice velocity, it's at the top of your class as a 20, 28. There's some guys who are going to throw harder than that. But like, you're in a pretty, you know, you're probably in like the 95th percentile of your class for sure.
They would rather take the kid who's 85 to 86 right now, who can pitch and command the ball and has a secondary pitch that he has some feel for because they feel like, well, all right, well, two years from now we can get that kid to 90 to 93. The kid who's 87 to 89 right now, who's spraying it and doesn't have a secondary pitch that isn't good enough, that's not getting you committed anymore.
And coaches actually are scared of those guys because they get you fired.
[00:34:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I'd say, George, because I think you're dead on, right? They're.
There is more interest that 4 to 7 strikes breaking ball can pitch compete than there is 88, 90 spraying. Pray. It's not even close either, to be honest with you. Like, guys aren't. Aren't excited, like, just because you're like ripping 90s. Like, yeah, guys are like, okay, like, a little intrigued. But, like, I've watched guys this weekend, especially with diamond cast, right? Like, everyone knows, like, you get every pitch. You don't have to be behind the, you know, the back, so you don't see the radar gun. Like, you can be anywhere basically in the general vicinity to see what's going on.
Like, just because a dude's 89, 90, like, guys are not flooding to the backstop anymore to be like, oh, my God, what's going on? When it's 40% strikes and he walks the guy in four pitches.
The other part of that too is that. And I saw it this weekend, which is wild to me because I still, like, you know, we aren't that old, but, like, we're older. Obviously. The amount of good swings that kids take on 88 miles an hour is wild.
Like, it is wild to me. Like, the guys that are the toughest to pitch are in that 4 to 7 range, 4 to 8 range, breaking ball maybe can turn it over a little bit, but, like, pitch compete.
Spin a slider at like 80, 79. And again, it doesn't have to be a huge pitch, like a huge breaker. Like, those guys are really, really, really tough to hit. And coaches are noticing that because guys are like, all right, like four to six, right? Let's just say. Let's just say you're four to six with a 77 mile an hour slider right now. And you threw five innings down here. Four innings punched out, eight like, you just put some work in. Just get to work, get to work. Really want it, right? Get to work, do the tough stuff and go in the spring and show them what you're going to be. And you're going to be quicker to a commitment than 88 to 90 that is launching the ball all over greater southwest Florida this weekend because it just doesn't work and guys know it. And there's enough kids that throw 88 to 90 that, like, you can look at the boards, right? Like, you can go on perfect game stuff. And then you can see all the 88s way more than it was five years ago. I can tell you guys that like I've been down here, like it's way more, but guys aren't interested in 40% strikes at 88. It doesn't matter. Like it, it, like it's amazing to watch what we've seen this year, what I saw this year even to an extent a little bit last year compared to where it was in 2021 when I came down here. And you're watching, you know, 89 and there's 30 schools behind a backstop and guys are like, y' all figure out how to teach them to throw strikes.
I'm like, you'll be teaching, you're gonna have to teach somebody else how to throw strikes because that ain't gonna work. Or you can be a new job because you know what I mean? So I just think there's just more to it. Right. Like you said, Andy, like, you know, I brought this up earlier. Like, you know, the, the two innings, the 88 to 90, you know, five years ago that thing was committed. It's not any more. So
[00:38:14] Speaker A: hitters aren't scared of the Velo anymore.
[00:38:17] Speaker C: Not at all.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: You see it a lot more. You can train for it a lot better than you we, than we were able to.
And I joke about it all the time. Like we had the two wheeled jugs, machines stacked on top of each other with the yellow dimple balls. Like now you can spin right handed change ups, left handed sliders. Like you can just go face it all in a cage and, and be a lot more comfortable in the box with it.
And it's only a lot more people throw hard, you know, so I think that the hitters aren't and eating is still hard, but I think kids are, you know, when you're training for it and you're seeing it all the time, you're getting better looks at it, you can get better swings off.
You know, with pitching has always been about trying to get hitters out. And I think the hitters are, especially at the collegiate level, like, yeah, you can go be 88 to 90 again. Like the guys aren't scared of it, but their plate discipline is way better than what it was five, six, seven years ago.
Yeah, but we're just gonna spit on it and take our walks. Like you will climb your pitch count. You're gonna be out in three hitters, bases loaded, nobody out. And we're probably gonna cash in six runs this inning.
And you know those guys that can, the guys that can spin the, can spin it, can force we Contact and get out. It's like, I think the pendulum is swinging back to like, hey, we, like, we can unlock the Velo eventually. It's a lot harder to unlock, you know, to unlock getting you to throw strikes and have a feel for a breaking ball because that's just, it's not going to work. And there's more that goes into it too. Like, and I think we've talked about this a lot on here, but you're, when you're talking in college, if you're just going to spray and pray, like, not only can you not pitch, but you can't come in with runners on. You can't pitch with runners on. It's just going to be a merry go round. Like there, there's a lot more risk involved. And it's always been my opinion, and I know it's not necessarily the most popular, but there's more risk involved with guys that are 88 to 92 that cannot throw strikes or spin a breaking ball than it is in a guy who's, you know, five to eight, who can spin a breaking ball and turn a change up over and, you know, locate both sides of the play. Like, that guy is probably going to more and have a better career than I was. 88 to 91, who just cannot command the, cannot command a fastball and has zero off speed pitch whatsoever.
[00:40:33] Speaker C: But here's, here's my take, right? And this goes back to what we, what I brought up earlier.
The 88 to 92 guy, Keith, there was the FOMO of like, yo, I miss on this guy. He throws 100, right? Not anymore. Because it doesn't matter anymore. Like, yeah, of course, you know, you want guys to throw hard, right? Like, we've already passed that. But like, the, the risk involved of that to be 97 to 100 is way, way, way higher than.
Yeah, let's just take the Shore thing. We know he can pitch in the seventh inning right now in our bullpen.
Yeah, the ceiling might not be, you know, frontline Friday starter, but we know exactly what we got for the next five years or four years, right? Like, that other guy, you have no idea if he's even going to make it to Christmas at that point, right? Because like, we know how it works as a freshman year. 88 to 91. Like, you know, and next thing you know, you start grooving them in there. I mean, it looks like, you know, bp, right? Like, dudes are smacking the ball over the yard. So I think that fomo, it comes back to that FOMO Again, where these guys are not. They're not like, oh, well, you know, so and so Keith Glasser, you know, he's going to end up at South Carolina and you know he's going to throw 100. Now I got to live with it because I got to answer to my boss. Guys are cool with it now. They're okay with it. I think.
I think that's like the biggest probably takeaway of this whole thing is, is that, like, guys are all right with other guys going other places, and that was not the case where we were seven years ago.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: No, it's not. They're not trying to accumulate guys just to accumulate commitments anymore. Like, it's about really liking that. I thought, I thought your point about guys not crowding behind home plate. It's so refreshing and we're all guilty of it at some point in our career where you see a ball come out real good and the first thing you do is grab the freaking radar gun. Like, you need confirmation. Like, you haven't.
[00:42:23] Speaker C: The other 17 don't work.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:25] Speaker B: Like, you haven't seen what 90 looks like a thousand times.
But one of the. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was from the. The legendary Mr. Dennis Healy was when you go to watch a kid pitch, don't.
Don't watch him throw the first inning with a radar gun off. Just watch.
Because if guys are taking bad swings or they're uncomfortable swings, that is just as important as seeing what the velocity is going to be. Right. And you know, as a coach, like, you can sit there and ballpark, okay, that kid's. Yeah, it's like 86, 87. Like, you're never that far off. You've watched enough guys throw.
But it's interesting that with the increase in technology, it's actually allowed guys to step away from the technology in the moment and kind of watch some of the results.
Like, does the kid get swinging, misses in the strike zone?
Does. Is he able to cross count pitches?
What is. What's the timing of, like, the guy. Are guys on his fastball when it's in the strike zone? Or is it. Or is it contact? Is it foul ball type stuff? And you. You're paying attention to the stuff that actually is going to play out when they get to the next level. And then you can come back to the data and go, oh, all right. He's a little bit light below wise, but my eyes tell me that kid's got a chance to be really good. I'm gonna, I'm gonna make sure I'M on that kid and I want to see that velo jump because if he gets in the velo range, that isn't going to get me fired. Now I can move on that kid because he does all the other stuff that I really value.
So I just think it's interesting that that's the, that that was kind of where we're at now is that guys have backed away from standing there, the jugs done up or the stock and looking at everything and just, just go there to kind of watch and see how it all plays out.
Because if the comps good, it'll tell you a lot. It really does.
[00:44:31] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean we're away from the whole let's just commit 27 guys so that the other schools in our league can't commit.
[00:44:40] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:44:41] Speaker A: And like reality is like you Obviously with a 34 man roster, you can't do that.
But I think that it's, it's a unsustainable. But you have more mechanisms as a coach to be able to figure out how you can construct your roster.
And being late and taking your time on high school guys is going to be a giant piece of it because I think they know that worst case scenario, we could always find somebody as a juco transfer or get a guy out of the portal as a one year plug and play guy who has some decent stats that does some stuff that we think is good. But like we're gonna, we're gonna be right more times than not on all of this stuff. So it's going to be a lot longer of a process and there's more guys available than there ever have been. So why rush all of this and just. Yeah, if they want to go there, go ahead, it's fine.
[00:45:37] Speaker C: Here's, here's, here's one of my other hot takes on this. And Keith, you kind of really just reminded me this.
We are going to get to a point where we are going to find out how many guys love to play because guys love to showcase. Guys love the idea of being able to say, oh well, I got to be in front of the school, I got to do this, I got to do that.
How many guys love to play? How many guys really love to play?
[00:46:03] Speaker A: Don't.
[00:46:04] Speaker C: Don't tell me. Oh, I love to play. Just how many guys really love to play. How many guys show up seven ready to play an 8:00am game when they just got done at 10:00 the night before, they got done at 9:00 clock the night before. They had an hour ride to the field.
Because that's what we're going to find out a lot of in the next three years. And I think once we get through that, like, 20, 30 cycle, I think we're going to sit here and say, yo, we found out guys that really, really, really want to play and love to play and don't just, like, the idea of, like, yeah, I can just go and showcase and it's all about me, and I don't care.
And, like, if that's you, like, this thing is going to eat you up and spit you out. Because there's going to be so much that goes into it of the play that coaches are going to have so much more data and so much more information on you as a player. Hopefully you play for somebody that you know, that they trust, right? Or you have somebody in your corner that they trust and that can tell them what's going on. But. But there's going to be a lot of games that guys are going to play through their process, starting, you know, freshman year of high school, all the way through that are going to be, yo, you just got to play. And, like, this is. There's no, like, oh, well, there's 30 schools coming to see me. It's just show up and play and love it and do the little stuff and do all that extra stuff. And, like, at the end of this, it. It's going to be all right. Like, no matter what, it'll be all right. You know, the timelines are going to be. The timelines. They are what they are. Is it the healthiest we've been, of course, but I think we're going to get a lot of right now of guys of wee out. Guys that like. Like the idea that thought it was cool because they just wanted to get to that Twitter post that's gone now. Like, you got to really work and, like, it's going to take another real off season to really work now, right?
And we're going to find out who's good and guys that love it, guys that want to work, guys that want to get after it, will get after it. These next few months, that will come out on the other side, and we'll have offers and we'll have a ton of opportunities, but we're going to get away from if. Guys that just kind of like the idea of the, you know, being cool on Twitter and being cool on Instagram with their friends, like, yo, this is where I'm going.
Or mom and dad, you know, really wanted me to place, this is where I'm going.
[00:48:25] Speaker B: That.
[00:48:25] Speaker C: That is going to be gone. I can tell you that right now.
[00:48:33] Speaker B: I think you're spot on. And I think that it's, some of these kids are going to get weeded out, right? It's the idea of, like, I play because I like the attention or do I play because I like to play, Right? Like, do you play the same way when nobody's at your high school game as you do when you're down at the Worldwood bat? Like, if you don't play the same way when there's guaranteed to be no college coaches there?
If you don't play the way that you do in front of all the coaches when nobody's watching, like this game, it'll chew you up eventually because, like the, the effort and the focus and like the ability to show up and just play regardless of the circumstances, you cannot get away with the ebbs and flows when you get to college. Like, the consistency of that effort is, is honestly, it's what separates most guys. Like how, how often can you, how many days on a back to back basis can you continuously show up and put forth a good effort? Everybody has bad days, but the kids who do it because they like the gear or because they like the attention or they want to play on a, you know, some prominent national team, whatever it is, like, if that's the reason you do it, you won't last long.
You might get there, but you won't last long. It's the same thing that you said around, do you like the idea of playing college baseball or do you like, really, really want to play college baseball?
Kids are gonna have to make that decision. And I think the social media stuff's gonna have to, at some point it's gonna have to kind of pause a little bit, but we'll see. But I, I, that's an interesting take and I think it's, I think it's valid that at some point, because these coaches are going to watch a lot more baseball before they ultimately jump on a kid. They're going to be able to suss that out a lot better.
If I see you play 10 times and six out of those 10 times you show up and it's just not that super into it. Like, yeah, man, I ain't got time for that.
I can give you a wand, I can give you a bad day, you know, I can give you, okay, it's just a bad day, man, like we all have, but you start getting into that, like 30 or 40% of the time you don't do the stuff that's easily within Your control, I ain't got time for that.
[00:50:58] Speaker C: They'll just find somebody else, guys. That's the reality. They'll just find somebody else.
[00:51:04] Speaker B: The motor he loves. That's like my favorite thing all the time.
[00:51:09] Speaker C: It's my favorite word.
[00:51:10] Speaker B: Just play hard. Just play hard all the time. And usually it'll kind of work itself out. On that note though, I do want to bring this up because we're talking about the pitch and piece, right? Where, you know, velocity isn't the thing that's going to get you recruited like it did four or five years ago, right? Like you, you got to be able to do some of the other stuff.
And it's become a lot more common that I think you have to dig into it a little bit more.
On the positional side, I would argue it's a little bit different in the early stages as a 28, you kind of got to have one or two like really loud tools.
Like the guys that you're, the position guys that you're seeing go off the board right now, they're generally middle of the field. Guys who can really defend and have another like, really high end tool. They can either really, really run or there's like some major juice offensively.
But I think one of the common things, and correct me if I'm wrong, the defensive side of the ball has become freaking mandatory in the early part of the process, like where guys are not betting on bats anymore.
You can't.
[00:52:27] Speaker C: So, so here's what I'll say. It's, it's.
It's a non negotiable. The defense, right?
You either have to really run or you have to have a ton of juice. I think one of those two work okay. But the, the defense is not even like, it's. It if you can't, if you can't play defense, like, guys are not even.
There's no interest at all, like, and no weaned guys. And I, I know that because I did this too, right, Guys, like, I. And I know you guys have done this, right? Like, you know, you get the cliche, like, oh, you know, they'll watch you play, you know, catch in between innings sometimes, right? Like, I can tell you this weekend I literally talked to guys in the second inning of our first game and we're like, yo, I love the way he plays defense. I'm like, he hasn't gotten a ball. Ground ball. Like, yo, I watched him, like legitimately watched him in between innings. So maybe it was a little cliche, maybe it wasn't. I don't know. But, like, I can tell you now, I watched it this weekend and I listened to it a few times.
You have to play defense. You better play defense in between innings because that may be the only time they can see you play. And they will eliminate you off of the way you feel. Ground balls in between innings.
You either got to run or you gotta have juice.
And honestly, you have to be physical. Like the undersized infielder right now. Now, that's, that's not gonna, that's not gonna change in nine months from now, because I think it will. But like, the undersized infielder in the early part of this process is gonna have to wait because I don't. Again, unless you got mega juice or you can run like, you know, 6, 5, 6, 4, I don't think you're going to see that come off the board. Like, you're seeing a little bit more physicality.
But yeah, like you said, Andy, man, like the defense, I mean, like, it's not even. Like, you can't even get to the next question if that's not like bonafide slam dunk. Yes.
[00:54:34] Speaker B: To run prevention sport always has and always will be. I know, you know, we're obsessed with home runs and doubles and all that stuff. And the scoring in college baseball is, you know, there's been some, some pretty electric offensive, but when push comes to shove, you look at the top of every conference. You look at the teams who advance to the, to the NCAA tournament, you look through the teams who advance to the latter stages of the tournament. This is at all levels of college baseball.
If you can really play defense, you got a chance to win a lot of baseball games. And it's not a secret formula. It doesn't get talked about as much because it's less tangible outside of, like, how hard can you throw the ball?
Sometimes it's hard to describe why an infielder is really good at what he does. When you start to break down angles and feel for being able to play on the run and that internal tempo and all the stuff that comes along and makes a guy like a really good defender, sometimes it's hard to quantify that stuff. So we always gravit towards, like, the black and white. But the black and white part about it is that if you field around 970 in Division 1, you're going to win a bowl of games. And in order to do that, you need to recruit guys who can defend. You can always score, figure out a way to score runs.
It was like, Keith, correct me If I'm wrong on this, but we did this, it was like 290 out of the 307 Division 1 teams last year average at least five runs scored a game and it was like 63 of them prevented five runs or less.
Like you can find offense, you recruit guys who can defend. Like you can find ways to score runs.
You can't manufacture the ability to, to turn batted balls into outs. You just can't do it.
[00:56:34] Speaker A: No, especially with lower, I, I say lower roster numbers but still like you're, you can't be wrong. Like you can't just take a bat for bat's sake.
You might be able to take one but it's going to be a left handed donkey who's going to be able to leave the yard rather frequently.
But you're going to have, you're going to have to at some point if you're going to play college baseball, put a glove on your hand and end up in the field. You're just going to have to do it. And you have to be at best an average defender.
At best.
Because if you're, if you're a below average defender, especially at the visual level like the, we can find other guys like people will take the defense over the offense to your point because it's, we can manufacture runs, we can bring the bat along. But he, he can really run. He's got a good arm and gets great reads in the outfield and can run down balls.
Yeah him in the eight hole and just have him bun you.
[00:57:38] Speaker C: I've said this to a few people. If you can play premium defense at the next level and premium defense is a big deal like and I'm not like that's not like an average Division 1 defender. That's a well above average Division 1 offender defender.
You are always right there to playing, always right. Because up upper run 8th inning you have defensive replacement.
Your spot comes up in the ninth, you get a base knock. You're, you are never far down the depth chart if you can play a premium defense.
So if you really want to play at the next level, right, get good at playing defense, whatever that position is that you play, get really good because you're always right there. You're always right there, right. You always got a little bit of juice. He's an older guy, maybe he starts, you know, seventh inning. His, his at bats, his, his spot comes up in a lineup, he's out. You'll get the young kid in. Let's play defense. We'll just play defense the next nine Outs, you're never that far away from being in and you're, you're always right there at the end when they say, well, what do we do now? Because we're not hitting.
Well, the name of the game, like you said, Andy, is run prevention. So if your team's not hitting and you're an elite defender, right, you usually are one of the guys that they're going to try to go to because they're like, yo, we'll just take the outs over there and we'll just figure the offensive part out because the X, Y and Z competitor of you is also not hitting. So like, let's just go with the premium defense.
So like premium defense is a huge, huge, huge deal.
[00:59:14] Speaker A: Defense travels.
But I think it was
[00:59:20] Speaker B: 20, 20, 2019, maybe.
[00:59:24] Speaker A: I think 2019, 643 charts released, like their day, their data on division one, two and three games. And it was something like, I think it was like 50.
I, I could be paraphrasing my numbers could be off a bit, but it was either like 52 or 50, 57 division one games or one run games.
That's a lot of games that are one run games and it climbs to like 76. That are two run games.
So like very rarely in college, especially when you get into conference games, are you playing or are you boat racing other teams, right? Like you're, you're going to be playing, you know, three, two, five, four, seven six ball games where defense is at a premium and the guys who can put a glove on and go defend at an elite level are going to find themselves on the field late in games or the whole game, if you will. But if you can only do, if you're a younger kid and you can only, like, you can be good at one thing, really good at one thing, go be really good at defense because you're, you're going to be an option super late in games where it's like, well, throw a glove on and put him in second base. Like he, there's nothing he's going to get by over there. We'll figure out the one at bat maybe that he's gonna get. And if we go to extras, whatever, it's all situational at that point. And I think the, like, the other side of it too is like, Carl, you say this all the time, like once the game starts, like the lineup doesn't matter, right? Like, and there's some there there. I think there's a lot of truth in it, but like once the game starts, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. Like, everything that you're going to do from a coaching perspective is going to be situationally driven based off of what that game is telling you to do in those moments.
[01:01:08] Speaker B: Right.
[01:01:08] Speaker A: Like, you can put a guy in, in the four hole for your shortstop because you're, you're. This guy's a better defender.
Yeah. Do you want someone who can go in and bang it? Sure. But if there's two outs and nobody on, like, what does it matter?
Or if there's two two on and no outs, like, that dude's bunning. Let the five hole guy who's still in the game drive him in.
[01:01:29] Speaker B: There we go.
[01:01:31] Speaker A: Solved it. But like, there's a lot of truth to it. And I think that, you know, I've been on this high horse for a long time, but you, your defensive stuff is not sexy on Twitter. Like, it's not Sexy like being 88 to 91 with a Snapdragon slider. Or you know, hey, I run a 64 and I also hit left handed and I get hit bombs. Like, yeah, that's awesome. Like, no one goes on is like, here's my defensive work.
But that can move the needle for you from a recruitment standpoint and from like legitimately being able to play early on in your career.
I like defense and I want to
[01:02:11] Speaker B: put, I want to put.
[01:02:11] Speaker A: I only played because I could defend and that's probably why I'm so high on it.
[01:02:16] Speaker C: I'm messing with you. I'm messing with you. I'll go on Instagram and check out Diva. You saw that and you guys know this person very well. I'm not going to use the name on here, but if you were at the game on Saturday and you watched the play our shortstop made, the entire place went silent. I've never been to a facility that every person there was like, oh, did he just make that play?
So I think that's cool, but just me.
[01:02:42] Speaker B: Well, here's, here's the difference between average and above average, right? Because I think that the average college defender turns balls with inside the framework of their body. Like those should be outs, right. That's kind of what's expected. Like, that's what makes an average defender is like you make the plays you're supposed to make, right? And those are when error shows up. Like when you see fielding percentage, it's generally the description of an error is you made a mistake on a play that was considered to be routine. Right.
Keith, you mentioned 57 or 75% with one run or two run games that could be an error. And that's what most people will point to, that the margins are really thin. You walk a guy, you kick a ball, whatever it might be.
The other side of that though, is having guys who can really, really defend, who take away hits.
Yeah. And those don't go in the book as like. And I'm sure that there's some metric that I'm not completely familiar with, but I think about like, little stuff that really good defenders do.
The shortstop who you got a guy on second base with two outs and a dude hits a rocket in the six hole.
But that guy can get off the ball really well. He positioned himself well because he knew what the pitch call was going to be. It was a breaking ball. So he's cheating in the hole at touch and he ends up diving and able to get that ball on the ground where it's still a hit. But now that guy can't score from second and that doesn't show up in the box score because it looks like a single. But like elite defenders do stuff like that and give your pitcher another chance to get it out. You get out of the inning out of the. Or you go and you make a play that isn't routine to end an inning right. Take a bunch away from somebody at their base. Or that's where the defense can really be a game changer in games that have such small margins of error is not only do you not make mistakes, but can you make plays. Like that's what separates the good defender from the elite defender is the elite.
The good defender doesn't make a lot of errors.
[01:05:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the, the wild thing.
And we can get into gameplay and everything else, but like whether you're playing seven or nine and you're playing nine in the collegiate game, for the most part, like you might play some seven double headers here and there, but for the most part, you're playing nines. It's 27 outs, the quickest one there. Without giving up enough the more runs than the other team is going to win. But you never like this game is bizarre from the standpoint of like, you never necessarily know what play is the one that's going to win or lose you the game. Like you could dump a ball in the fourth that you know, you sail or you short cross the diamond. First baseman can't come up with it. That ends up scoring a run from second and it's five, four, and there's no run scored the rest of the game.
Like that run right there, more or less is the game winning run and it happened in the fourth.
And that's, I think it's bizarre in some regards because it's hard to necessarily wrap your mind around those things in this game. But that's why defense comes at such a high premium because that, those play. But it's also, you know, to your point, balls that you can make outs on, keep pitch counts down, balls that you can keep in the infield, give your pitcher another opportunity to be able to get an out instead of, hey, we gave up a single, that guy scored from second. Now I got to go get my, now I got to go get a pitcher and go to a bullpen, R and B, because we need to get out of this inning, whatever it might be. Like there's more the game within the game, there's way more that goes into it. And if you can be an elite defender, you're going to give your, your pitchers more of an opportunity to get outs. You're going to get more outs. Those guys can go deeper in games. And I think that there's, I mean, I wasn't a pitcher. You were, Jonathan. But I think that there's a, a level of confidence that comes to pitchers when you turn or like you're giving up barrels or you're giving up weak contact, whatever it is. And you just, you have the feeling that every time a ball is hit and play, it's A, going to be an out or B, they're going to do everything in their power to make sure that they're not giving up a run and, or keeping whatever it might be. And now it's like, well, shit, if these guys are going to lay out for me all the time, like I have to make a pitch here. And there's a level of confidence, I think that comes with that. And that's what, you know, really good defenders can, can make a team even better.
[01:07:36] Speaker C: Keith, I, I was gonna, I was gonna give you. I, it sounded like you were in a couple of my post game huddles this weekend.
[01:07:46] Speaker A: I was not.
[01:07:47] Speaker C: I wish the math will tell you guys right? And anyone that's ever played for me will hear, hears me say this all the time. All you gotta get all 21 of them. They all are equal. There's not one that's more important than the other one. Like math people will tell you that they are literally every single one is its own separate entity. You got to get all 21 of them and they all count the exact same.
[01:08:10] Speaker A: That's it.
[01:08:11] Speaker C: All 21. They're all the exact same. The first one counts just as much as the 21st. It's a wild game. It's not. There's no. For the most part, there's no clock. Right. Can't just run the clock out. Okay.
[01:08:23] Speaker A: We can't take a knee in the seventh, right.
[01:08:25] Speaker C: We can't be like, yo, this is it, we're good. Like, game's over. Like, there's some days I wish you could, to be honest with you. And you guys know that, right? Like, you've been around this enough. Like, sometimes the last three may appear to be the toughest three to get, but, like, technically, by the way, the law is written, all 21, all equal, no more importance on one as opposed to 21. Just the way it works.
[01:08:52] Speaker B: Those last three have a way being a lot harder than they should be, though.
Why? It's hard to find a guy who can get those guys out at the back end. But you're absolutely right. Like, it. It is. It is interesting how you can watch a baseball game and like, you can. You can point to one moment and it could be the first or it could be the ninth.
Just. Yeah. Really? That simple?
[01:09:15] Speaker A: It's just a weird. It's. I mean, that's why the game is the best game. But, you know, you can.
There's certain things that can happen within a game that you can look back on it. It's like, I say this as the former coach, but, like, it's not like you hammer your kids on it, but you, like, you think about it when you replay the game in your mind. Like, yeah, man, if we.
If we made that play in the fourth, like, we're. We don't. We don't dump three.
And you know, we're up five, two instead of being down, instead of being tied five, five. And we give it up late.
Like, who cares if we give up a run in the nine fits five, three at that point in time instead of five, five.
And you know, like, there's so many instances and back to like, the 57% of games being like that. Like, that's. You're going to be in tight games and the margins are thin. So what can you do in order to make sure that you're a. Giving your best chance to win games. But if you're a player, what's the best chance for me to be on the field? And it's being able to defend with that glove on your hand and catch. If you're a catcher, catch the ball.
The first of the position, catch it. You're not a retriever.
[01:10:22] Speaker B: You're a catcher, please do not become a retriever. It's not fun to watch.
Best. Best catches are the guys that you walk away from the game and don't even know they were there.
[01:10:31] Speaker C: That's it.
[01:10:33] Speaker B: Nothing ever went wrong. Nothing was funky.
[01:10:37] Speaker C: Yeah. How did I do today, coach? Honestly, I didn't know you were here. Oh, man. Really? Yeah. That's a good. That's actually a compliment. I didn't know you were here.
Wasn't sure you were at the game. Like, we're good.
[01:10:49] Speaker A: Honestly, the only time I knew you were here.
No, it is.
It's like those conversations. Honestly, the only time I knew you were here is when I saw you running back from first base after backing up like that was just because you were in my direct line of sight.
The only reason I knew that you were back there today.
[01:11:07] Speaker B: Great job.
All right, Any. Any other.
Any other tidbits from our recent travels here?
No, I.
[01:11:18] Speaker C: Like I said, I think enjoy the process again. I think it. It's. It can be stressful. It can be. If it's doom and gloom, if you feel like the world's, you know, it's only black skies and dark skies and things are horrible and the recruiting process is horrible.
Hit these guys up. Hit, hit. Just hit some one of us up on this call. And I can assure you it's really not that bad because it's really not. It's not. It's not. It's actually at a great spot.
Just enjoy playing now and want to get better. Like take this time and want to get better. So when you hit the ground, come March in high school, you know, Earl for warm weather state guys, but March in high school for most of the country, June for most of the country, when travel ball starts, like, be ready to go because there's a lot of decisions made in June, July, next year is 2028 grads and 2029. Enjoy the process. Play. Love it. Just love showing up every day. Don't get so enamored with. I have to make this decision, you know, by Halloween this year. It's not. It's just. It's not going to be the case. So enjoy it, have fun and just get after it. Because what has made guys good for the last, I don't know, hundred years at this game is still true. Just keep getting better. It's still true. It's the same thing. Just keep getting better.
[01:12:40] Speaker B: Well said. Coach Glass, anything on your end? No, sir.
All right, well, thank you for listening, everybody. Jonathan, as always, thank you. We'll have it back on again here soon, I'm sure.
But thank you for listening everybody. Tune in next week. We'll talk to you then.
Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and smash that like button for us. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram MD Baseball. If you want to find out what me and Keith do to help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check us out on emdbaseball.com take a few minutes to check out our new online academy. I promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening.
[01:13:28] Speaker A: Check in with you next week.
